Good for Campbell

Secondly in that KC game Todd Collins got a delay of game because he was changing the protection. He made line adjustments.

i commented on the exact same thing after that game as well. the very first snap when collins came in he made an adjustment. now that play ended up being a false start or delay of game but the next play, same formation was a bomb to moss.

GTripp you say that Zorn calls protections in the plays right ? Go to Redskins.com and look up the post game press conference from 9-14-08 when we beat New Orleans. Listen to what Jim Zorn says about what Jason did and what they are working with him on. Secondly in that KC game Todd Collins got a delay of game because he was changing the protection. He made line adjustments. I feel that my opinion is good enough but I'm so persistent with my views because you all are so persistent in tellung me that I'm wrong for what I see. I don't get how you and so many other skins fans revere this guy. Let me stop with my overtly feminine and tiresome me against the world routine.

Be easy.

I appreciate how you can type up a nice post and be very eloquent with your delivery but it still doesn't prove a thing. If you have your own opinion of how things went you do. I see something different. Like I said his play has and will do the talking. It has said enough for me to say that he's sorry but you all see a star.I don't think Collins was changing the protection on the play you reference, but obviously, the play clock is a limiting factor on how much you can tweak a play. Either way, tweaking the protection and setting it are two different things.

My point is you are not alone in your opinion. Other people see what you do. I have seen what you are referencing. I also see every other play, and make note of the negative, but do not dwell on it. I don't dwell on the positive either. There are many plays in a fb season. Campbell had almost 550 plays last year. He missed a wide open receiver maybe 8-9 times. He might have passed on a tough but makable throw two or three times as often.

If of 550 plays in the season, there are 180 bad plays made by the quarterback (sacks, avoidable incompletions, interceptions), and 20-30 of them are because the quarterback got confused and missed his read or held the ball too long, and cost the team some points and perhaps half a win to a win, well, there's room for improvement. But by NFL standards, there's not a problem.

We see the same film evidence. I might see it a few times more than most, but it's not a matter of differences in evidence. It's about understanding what a bad QB play is in NFL, and the best QBs in the NFL make 5-6 really bad QB plays in a single season.

***

If we used logic consistent with the anti-Campbell arguments, the Saints should at least think about finding someone better than Drew Brees. Because he makes more than a few bad plays in any season, and if quarterbacks make bad plays, we have to hold them accountable. Drew Brees should be held accountable for his mistakes, and, thusly, the Saints should have been more aggressive in trying to acquire Donovan McNabb.

A good analyst focuses on the 150 plays that went bad with Campbell doing his job at least respectably. Doesn't make the other 30 excusable mistakes, but if you fix 8 mistakes by changing the QB to someone better, and now have 170 bad passing plays in a season, well, what have you really done?

The other problem is that you're creating a strawman that we all see a "star". I think, if his development had gone perfectly (and I think it's gone disasterously), Campbell could have been a multi-time pro-bowler.

But you wouldn't have expected to go perfectly (Tom Brady's development, I'd describe as perfect. Philip Rivers, ditto), as there's many uncontrollable variables in a QBs development. I don't think there was a high probability, coming out of Auburn, that Campbell was going to be a star, here or elsewhere. With that said, we've probably ruined him, to a degree, but he didn't exactly remind anyone of Sonny Jurgensen in his first camp.

I don't think you'll find anyone who "sees a star." Not one fan. Redskins or Raiders.

Why are we still arguing about JC? The guy isn't any good or here anymore. Oakland is bad and he can't make them better.

Nobody reveres him or thinks he's a star. He's a middle of the road QB. He's no Manning or Brady, but he's certainly not garbage or a bum. This is just beyond silly now.

Dude honestly? I give examples all day but you all just say no he didn't and the o line was bad and you all are geniuses. It truly is pointless. His play will do all the talking but you all will find an excuse for that as well. He is as indecisive a QB as I have seen in a long time. Take away last year, which is bad for you all because you take away his best year TD wise. But what do you have left ?

I can't use the '07 season as an example because you all will say that it doesn't count because Todd Collins who had to play behind the same O-Line and use the same receivers that couldn't play well and led this team to the playoffs when we were running away from playoff contention. Why ? Because you all will say that it was just because Todd Collins was in Al Saunders' system forever. Cool. Even though we had to defeat the Vikings, Giants, Cowboys, and Bears all four teams had pretty damn good defenses that year but it wouldn't fly though would it ?

I can't use his first year with Zorn because you all will just say that he was good early in the year and that Ron Jaworski said that Campbell played well. But you will forget how Jaworski ripped JC and his followers about JC not having time. But you all would've probably missed that game.

For some reason I am the only guy here who saw JC miss recievers time and time again on deep routes. Whether it was a deep post, a deep out, a fly, or even a fade that he threw put of bounds consistently buuuut I'm sure that would be the receivers fault.

Or how about the line adjustments that he wouldn't quite do ? I mean lets be real people. You all talked about how he wasn't allowed to audible because he was being held back by the administration but he told Matt Mosley that he checked from a pass to a run on a 3 and 8 against the Giants because he forgot the down and distance.

You can look back at the games and see where he misses receivers or waits too long to pull the trigger. When has he wowed you as a fan ? When did you ever look at him and say damn he's good ? I'm sure that you probably left many games saying If he only, or He was that close. Hold on to that New Orleans game because that was the only time that he showed a glimmer of brilliance in my opinion. You tell me when he pointed out a blitz, or when he made you feel like he was special. But what the hell do I know ?

I'm sure some of you play Madden and if you can figure out that sometimes you need to change a protection to survive,.. Why can't he ?

Have your fun loving him and his subpar play. Like I've always said, UNTIL he changes his game he will be what he is. Middle of the pack and apparently we as Redskins fans believe that middle of the pack can work because waaaaaaaaay back in the day we were able to win without the best QB's in the league. The man NEVER had to compete for his job, and only when he was told that he would be replaced did he decide to start becoming a leader on this team. So GTripp maybe this isn't good enough but you all kill me with the way that you all defend him.. You can be so critical of everyone elses play but this guy,...this guy gets a pass. But why ?

He's a Raider and I'm officially done talking about him here. I'll save it for another area where I can talk and see the look in someones eyes when they realize that ot's not just hate, but the fact that I'm a fan of this team who wasn't willing to settle for subpar play at the most important position in all of sports.

Jason Campbell is a bum and I'm done talking about him.

Have fun with this.

Here you go buddy, you are not the only one. Quote: Originally Posted by Audi View Post Is this a further indictment on Jason Campbell's value around the league? So far we have the Panthers preferring to stick with Matt Moore, the Cleveland Browns going with Seneca Wallace and Jake Delhomme, the Broncos preferring first Kyle Orton and now Brady Quinn, and of course the Bears preferring Jay Cutler. Yes, he is a career journeyman, who has not raised his game even to the level of other career journeyman such as Kerry Collins, Jeff Garcia, Jon Kitna, etc. In other words he is a BUM.. Yes I said it: a BUM, but he happens to be the best option we currently have at QB. So we make do and give the bum another chance to disappoint us again before we absolutely throw him to the wolves by the end of the season... http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/35666-report-quinn-traded-to-broncos-2.html#post673711 I think there are plenty of others that feel this way about JC but are tired of rehashing this with you since he is now a Raidah. Out with the old, in with the NEW!! HTTR!!!!

I think he needs to be with another team or two to technically be considered a journeyman.

Dude honestly? I give examples all day but you all just say no he didn't and the o line was bad and you all are geniuses. It truly is pointless. His play will do all the talking but you all will find an excuse for that as well. He is as indecisive a QB as I have seen in a long time. Take away last year, which is bad for you all because you take away his best year TD wise. But what do you have left ?

I can't use the '07 season as an example because you all will say that it doesn't count because Todd Collins who had to play behind the same O-Line and use the same receivers that couldn't play well and led this team to the playoffs when we were running away from playoff contention. Why ? Because you all will say that it was just because Todd Collins was in Al Saunders' system forever. Cool. Even though we had to defeat the Vikings, Giants, Cowboys, and Bears all four teams had pretty damn good defenses that year but it wouldn't fly though would it ?

I can't use his first year with Zorn because you all will just say that he was good early in the year and that Ron Jaworski said that Campbell played well. But you will forget how Jaworski ripped JC and his followers about JC not having time. But you all would've probably missed that game.

For some reason I am the only guy here who saw JC miss recievers time and time again on deep routes. Whether it was a deep post, a deep out, a fly, or even a fade that he threw put of bounds consistently buuuut I'm sure that would be the receivers fault.

Or how about the line adjustments that he wouldn't quite do ? I mean lets be real people. You all talked about how he wasn't allowed to audible because he was being held back by the administration but he told Matt Mosley that he checked from a pass to a run on a 3 and 8 against the Giants because he forgot the down and distance.

You can look back at the games and see where he misses receivers or waits too long to pull the trigger. When has he wowed you as a fan ? When did you ever look at him and say damn he's good ? I'm sure that you probably left many games saying If he only, or He was that close. Hold on to that New Orleans game because that was the only time that he showed a glimmer of brilliance in my opinion. You tell me when he pointed out a blitz, or when he made you feel like he was special. But what the hell do I know ?

I'm sure some of you play Madden and if you can figure out that sometimes you need to change a protection to survive,.. Why can't he ?

Have your fun loving him and his subpar play. Like I've always said, UNTIL he changes his game he will be what he is. Middle of the pack and apparently we as Redskins fans believe that middle of the pack can work because waaaaaaaaay back in the day we were able to win without the best QB's in the league. The man NEVER had to compete for his job, and only when he was told that he would be replaced did he decide to start becoming a leader on this team. So GTripp maybe this isn't good enough but you all kill me with the way that you all defend him.. You can be so critical of everyone elses play but this guy,...this guy gets a pass. But why ?

He's a Raider and I'm officially done talking about him here. I'll save it for another area where I can talk and see the look in someones eyes when they realize that ot's not just hate, but the fact that I'm a fan of this team who wasn't willing to settle for subpar play at the most important position in all of sports.

Jason Campbell is a bum and I'm done talking about him.

Have fun with this.
I find that you attacking JC's character reprehensive more than anything about his play. Actually, when you made that post that set off this firestorm, it was about his character. If you are so inclined to believing and propagating nearly libelous or calumnious beliefs based on a person's ability to play football or his honest (and as discreet as possible) assessment of the play of the guys around him, then I say that you have a personal vendetta against him that extends to much more than just bad QB play.

Not only that, you go accusing folks of beliefs that may not hold. I, for one, believe that Jason Campbell simply requires too large of a margin for error to make it in the playoffs without an exceptional supporting cast.

I think he needs to be with another team or two to technically be considered a journeyman.

Do you mean we don't have a good enough evidence sample to determine JC is a journeyman? If so, I agree. I will also stick to my opinion that that's what he has shown me he is so far.

This is another topic people need to get over with. My God, why do we have such whining fans. I don't think even Vinny get such anger-filled posts. :doh: