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beg8878 11-16-2004, 01:36 PM Daseal, the difference is in their track record. Gibbs warrants the 1st year pass because he is a proven coach in this league, granted the league has changed, but his track record is still what it is. Spurrier didnt have that to fall back on and that is why he didnt get the same R-E-S-P-E-C-T...and that is what it means to me!!!!
I personally dont think Gibbs is doing a bad job. I saw a lot of wide open receivers that were overthrown, underthrown or they are just flat out dropping balls. Good plays, bad execution by the players.
Decent talent. We have more talent than any team in the NFC East in my opinion. Our offense is under-acheiving, our defense is over-acheiving. Too bad they don't balance out.
Weren't you crushing Spurrier in his first year? You do the same thing Matty, just because he's Joe Gibbs that doesn't mean anything for most people, and some Redskins fans. He's no different than any other coach in this league that's not getting it done.
In his first year I wasn't all that critical of Spurrier, even in year 2 I was more than willing to give him year 3.
Not sure what you're talking about.
sportscurmudgeon 11-16-2004, 03:12 PM smootsmack:
Why does Gibbs have to go thourgh all this to "build the franchise"?
Unless of course it is the franchise that is broken and needs significant repair. And how might that have happened...?
Even Joe Gibbs realizes that this team needs a LOT of work before it is a contender again.
Daseal:
If you really think that the Skins have the best talent in the NFC East, how come they don't go 6-0 in that Division? In fact, how come they don't break even in that Division?
Don't look at the cumulative records of the NFC East teams over the past year and a half. You'll find the team you think has the best talent at 8-17 and the others doing just a bit better...
bedlamVR 11-16-2004, 06:08 PM I wouldn't say we have the best talent but we certainally are not the least talented the is a core there...
Hail to the Redskins 11-16-2004, 06:12 PM OK guys... let's be completely honest. Let's compare talent with ... just off the top of my head.. the Atlanta Falcons...
Defense
WAS - #2 Defense (#1 Defense much of the year without Barrow, Arrington, Bowen, etc.)
ATL - #21 Defense
... obviously stronger here
Wide Receivers
WAS - Coles, Gardner, Thrash, Jacobs, McCants... Cooley
ATL - P. Price, Dez White (#2 receiver?? yikes), Finneran (yikes yikes!), Jenkins (rookie with 1 catch)... and Crumpler (by far their best option this year)
... I think it is pretty clear that we grade way higher here...
Running Back
WAS - Clinton Portis
ATL - Dunn and Duckett (Vick is their leading rusher)
... I can't think of one NFL team that would rather have those 2 over Clinton
Offensive Line
WAS - Portis 4.0 avg - 22 sacks allowed to 30-something QB with hammy problems and a stautous P-Ram.
ATL - Dunn 3.8 avg. - 30 sacks allowed to MICHAEL VICK
... at the VERY LEAST a draw here... but with Jansen healthy, I gotta go us
Record
WAS - 3-6
ATL - 7-2
... Hmmm.. something doesn't add up ... where's the difference?
Two Possibilities:
Quarterback
WAS - Brunell and Ramsey - 1561 yds, 49.5% comp, 10 TD, 11 INT
ATL - Vick - 1537 yds, 57.9% comp, 7 TD, 7 INT (536 yds rushing)
... naturally, as talent goes, I think you give this to Vick...
Coaching
WAS - Legendary Joe Gibbs (127-66 overall record, .658 Win Pct)
ATL - First year coach Jim Mora (7-2 overall record, .778 Win Pct)
... Well... Mora DOES have the higher Win Pct?? ...ummm.. yeah, this one goes to us
So ok... we have the better defense, running back, wide receiving core, a VERY comparable O-Line, and a Hall of Fame coach. The only deficiency... QB.
Again... Atlanta is 7-2... we are 3-6. If anyone here can say our problem is talent, they are nuts. I HAVE to say the poison killing this team has been the combination of QB play and Gibbs playcalling. WE definitely have 7-2 talent... we just can NEVER put it together!!!
Anyone wanna argue this with me??
That Guy 11-16-2004, 06:21 PM mora hasn't been out of the nfl as long... so far our play calling on O hasn't been amazing... i'd give mora the edge in offensive playcalling (this year), cause he's taken what he has and made it work, we haven't yet...
sportscurmudgeon 11-17-2004, 10:01 PM Hail to The Redskins:
OK, I'll argue with you about this because sometimes you have to look beyond the first stats:
The Falcons are the ONLY team in the NFL to have two backs with more than 500 yards rushing at the moment. Vick happens to be one of them. And their #3 rusher is over 300 yards. The Falcons AVERAGE 5 yards per rushing play; that is 19% better than the Skins average per running play. So, I agree; Portis is a better RB than anything on the Falcons, but the Falcons have a much better overall running game than the Skins do. Or did I miss the fact that Portis is at 1500 yards rushing already?
What makes that running game effective in Atlanta? They have a much better OL than the Skins do. I completely agree with you that the injury to Jansen was devastating to this unit this year, but still, the Atlanta OL is better than the Skins'.
The Falcons have a poor pass defense (something like 28th in the league) but they have a good run defense.
BTW, the Redskins' defense that has all those gaudy stats has yet to score a TD - not a single one. The Falcons defense has put three TDs on the board.
You neglected to mention special teams. Redskins have scored ZERO on special teams this year and have given up a TD. Falcons have scored once on special teams and not given up a score.
With regard to the wide receivers, I agree that Coles is better than Price as the lead receiver. After that, it's a wash. I don't think Gardner is such a significant step up from White that it matters and frankly I like Finneran better than Thrash at #3.
And at tight end it is NO CONTEST. Crumpler will probably go to the Pro Bowl from the NFC. Cooley is a good young rookie.
The single biggest difference between the teams is at QB - as you suggest. Michael Vick is better than Brunell and Ramsey and Hasselbeck and Gibran Hambone (if they ever bring him back to the team) added together.
Skins4SB 11-17-2004, 10:16 PM 0 points off special teams? I'm pretty sure Harris scored a TD off a blocked punt by Jacobs. I think you meant via return. Look at what Thrash did alone in the Lions game. The Skins special teams(coverage wise) has been stepping up.
SmootSmack 11-17-2004, 10:21 PM mora hasn't been out of the nfl as long... so far our play calling on O hasn't been amazing... i'd give mora the edge in offensive playcalling (this year), cause he's taken what he has and made it work, we haven't yet...
The Falcons coach isn't Jim "Playoffs?!?!" Mora, it's his son, head coaching for the first time ever
Gmanc711 11-17-2004, 10:42 PM With regard to the wide receivers, I agree that Coles is better than Price as the lead receiver. After that, it's a wash. I don't think Gardner is such a significant step up from White that it matters and frankly I like Finneran better than Thrash at #3.
Really, this season, Coles just hasent been the same. I really think he needs some serious surgery in the offseason. He may still be better than Price, but hes not the same Coles as we saw before this injury.
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