Utah killer executed by firing squad

Killing a human is not the same as killing a pig, although I'd be willing to bet that the highest forms of civilization in our universe don't kill anything at all. But, since we're not there yet I'll just keep enjoying my bacon.

You have been watching too much star track. I could feel more sorrow for a pig then I could for some of the people on death row.

You have been watching too much star track. I could feel more sorrow for a pig then I could for some of the people on death row.

I would feel sorry for Usain Bolt, and only Usain Bolt.

Even though the State kills murderers, more murderers will come. Spiral on.

They'll come whether we kill them or not, therefore it's not a spiral.

Executing a killer does not make more people say you know what, I want to become a serial killer because I don't like that they executed that guy.

You have been watching too much star track. I could feel more sorrow for a pig then I could for some of the people on death row.

Yeah, but bacon is good. Pork chops are good.

They'll come whether we kill them or not, therefore it's not a spiral.

Executing a killer does not make more people say you know what, I want to become a serial killer because I don't like that they executed that guy.

You forget that condoning executions creates a culture of killing. Spiral on.

I have mixed feelings on the death penalty filled with subtle complexities. Primarily, I oppose “revenge killing” because I agree with Lotus that killing, whether by an individual or the State, done to exact revenge on another individual ultimately creates more hate. Throughout history, societies have recognized the destructive nature of such killings and have moved away from them in order to advance. As I have said before, Hammurabi’s Code – “an eye for an eye” - was actually a limitation on revenge killing because prior to that it had been “your arm, your leg and your child for my wife’s eye”.

At the same time, I generally agree with Schneed that a society can decide to deny the right of life in the interest of justice. We as a society are entitled to and expect that our government to provide “justice”. Again, look through history at most revolutions and civil wars, populations will put up with tyrants/dictators, etc. but not injustice. The right to deny life is just another one of those balancing acts between individual liberty and group rights that exist when groups of people live in civil society.

The question for me is when does societal “justice” become societal “revenge”. I would suggest that often the death penalty, as it is applied in this country, is unjust as it seems that you may or may not get the death penalty depending on who you murder. Kill a hobo and get life in prison, kill a prominent pretty white girl, get the death penalty. This smacks more of revenge killing, i.e. we, as a society, valued the life of the pretty white girl more than the life of the hobo so we exact more “justice” from you for killing our favored individual. In such a case, it is not the denial of life that cries for justice – it is the denial of a specific life.

So, on one hand, I favor a fairly draconian application, you commit murder (i.e. you kill some one with “malice aforethought” or with such a “wanton disregard for others safety” that is the equivalent of malice).

On the other hand, I disagree with Schneed’s “cost of doing business” argument. To me, society’s justification for imposing the ultimate penalty is dependent upon the certainty that the criminal has committed the ultimate crime. Imposing the death penalty upon someone when we cannot be 100% sure the person is guilty borders on “wanton disregard for others safety” and undercuts the very argument for society’s “just” application of the death penalty (When an individual intentional kills someone and denies the victim of their right to life, it is wrong; BUT, if we intentionally kill someone who has not committed such a crime that’s just a big ole’ “oops” too bad so sad. To me that is a blatantly hypocritical stance - circle back to unjust and revenge killings).

Ultimately, and in my opinion, justice is something we as a society decide and for which we are all answerable. I generally agree with Schneed that we, as a society, can decide that it is “just” to deny an individual his right to life. At the same time, in the name of justice, this penalty is reserved for those we are 100% sure are guilty. However, if we are 100% sure they are guilty of murder, it does not matter who you murdered - you will die. Anything other than this strikes me as unjust and/or a form of revenge killing.

Yeah, but bacon is good. Pork chops are good.

Everything is better with bacon.

As an aside...bravo for a rather civilized discussion on a serious hot button issue. Please no one be a jackass and ruin this.

You forget that condoning executions creates a culture of killing. Spiral on.

Only if the execution is seen as unjust. Otherwise, and IMHO, a society's just killing is the ultimate condemnation of the murderer.

"Revenge shall be mine sayeth the Lord" but "Give unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's". We have the right to govern and decide justice amongst ourselves.

You forget that condoning executions creates a culture of killing. Spiral on.I don't recall any murders related to, or in retaliation of, a court ordered death sentence.

On a scale of 0 to 10 for a culture of killing, with a 0 being raising/nurturing baby bunnies and 10 being an MS-13 member at age 11, the death sentence is about a .01 in terms of contributing to a "culture of killing".