Lotus
06-22-2010, 01:10 PM
While I don't disagree with you on your main point I would say your reasoning is the type of reasoning that will never ever result in the death penalty being really abolished.
1) As far as I know there isn't a large contingent of death penalty advocates who are for it simply because they think it's cheaper. Mostly because that is blatantly immoral. They're for it because they think the killers deserve it. A cost argument is completely lost on them.
2) Here you have presented a statistical fallacy. Or more accurately been presented a statistical fallacy that you then bought hook line and sinker. Most of these studies are woeful. They are conducted by biased organizations and done in a poorly devised economical analysis. Basically the studies don't actually study whether the death penalty is a quality deterrent...they study whether the death penalty eliminates murder. Subtle distinction. For example...none of the studies I know of have adequately addressed whether Fla actually has less murder because of the death penalty or not. For all we know the death penalty in Fla does the best job in preventing murder but it simply isn't good enough to actually eliminate it. Maybe without the death penalty the murder rate would sky rocket to crazy levels.
I would guess you and I would agree that on the face of it I can't see how the death penalty actually deters murder. It seems like basic common sense to me that if you are the type that is going to kill someone in a manner "deserving" of the death penalty then the threat of the death penalty is probably moot.
The best argument in my mind is that killing people for anything is just wrong. It is what we're trying to punish. Seems damn hypocritical and damn ironic to punish someone by doing to them what they did to somebody.
A) Actually a lot of people do justify the death penalty because they do not know that executions are more expensive. Just look at some of the posts in this thread. I've found personally that the cost argument is very effective for some people. Many people think that executions are actually a cheaper route and change their minds when they are properly informed. But to each his own. :)
B) I couldn't agree more about your "best argument." The death penalty just creates a culture of hypocritical violence in which, by putting murderers to death, we are ironically socialized to think that killing is ok. But in my own experience, some people are so full of hate that they just don't get this argument. For these people, someone's gotta die, period.
1) As far as I know there isn't a large contingent of death penalty advocates who are for it simply because they think it's cheaper. Mostly because that is blatantly immoral. They're for it because they think the killers deserve it. A cost argument is completely lost on them.
2) Here you have presented a statistical fallacy. Or more accurately been presented a statistical fallacy that you then bought hook line and sinker. Most of these studies are woeful. They are conducted by biased organizations and done in a poorly devised economical analysis. Basically the studies don't actually study whether the death penalty is a quality deterrent...they study whether the death penalty eliminates murder. Subtle distinction. For example...none of the studies I know of have adequately addressed whether Fla actually has less murder because of the death penalty or not. For all we know the death penalty in Fla does the best job in preventing murder but it simply isn't good enough to actually eliminate it. Maybe without the death penalty the murder rate would sky rocket to crazy levels.
I would guess you and I would agree that on the face of it I can't see how the death penalty actually deters murder. It seems like basic common sense to me that if you are the type that is going to kill someone in a manner "deserving" of the death penalty then the threat of the death penalty is probably moot.
The best argument in my mind is that killing people for anything is just wrong. It is what we're trying to punish. Seems damn hypocritical and damn ironic to punish someone by doing to them what they did to somebody.
A) Actually a lot of people do justify the death penalty because they do not know that executions are more expensive. Just look at some of the posts in this thread. I've found personally that the cost argument is very effective for some people. Many people think that executions are actually a cheaper route and change their minds when they are properly informed. But to each his own. :)
B) I couldn't agree more about your "best argument." The death penalty just creates a culture of hypocritical violence in which, by putting murderers to death, we are ironically socialized to think that killing is ok. But in my own experience, some people are so full of hate that they just don't get this argument. For these people, someone's gotta die, period.