Arizona's New Immigration Law

They're not cut out for a lot of taxable jobs.


you probably didn't intend it this way, but this struck me as a bit racist.
taxable jobs include trashmen, mcdonalds fry guy, painter, teacher, lawyer, doctor, secretary, etc etc...

doesn't seem right that a certain group/class/nationality isn't cut out to do certain work. now, if you know NO english and dont have a high school or college degree, then of course your options are limited. i assume that was your angle....

btw, saw this article and thought you all might find it interesting:


Email reveals Arizona law was designed to maximize harassment
By Gabriel Winant

I was once privy to a conversation between a couple of middle-aged lefties, one white, one black. The white guy was remembering his early hippie days, and said, "You know, I think what first taught me to be afraid of the cops was smoking pot. That's when I lost my childhood innocence about the power of the state." The black woman looked at him, rolled her eyes, and said, "That's because you’re white -- that's why it took you so long."

It's a funny story, but it contains a point that can't be made often enough right now: the arguments coming from conservatives in defense of Arizona's controversial new immigration law tend to claim that it only empowers police officers to demand documentation after "lawful contact," and hence doesn’t constitute racial profiling or harassment. (See this coming from Ramesh Ponnuru, of the National Review, here.) This idea reveals thoroughgoing ignorance about what profiling is, and how it works.

When conservatives like Ponnuru think of racial profiling, they seem to think of a straw man. The image is something like an evil officer out of the Jim Crow South, full of "prejudice" (itself a fairly silly and inaccurate way to describe racism), enacting his hatred by stopping black people or Latinos arbitrarily. Although it is arbitrary and unfair in terms of who gets targeted, racial profiling also fits into a set of structures guiding police behavior. If cops want to stop someone, they'll be able to cite some legitimate-sounding suspicion, whether it is actually legitimate or not. Profiling doesn't need to feel like profiling to the police, and they don't need to be secret Klansmen to enforce racial discrimination. It shows up way before you get to that point, among ordinary officers who probably just think they're doing their duty.

Ta-Nehisi Coates, for example, tells a story about being stopped in Chelsea on the way back from an NPR interview, on suspicion that he was a Latino male who had robbed someone; he also notes that discriminatory policing can end up much, much worse than it did for him that day. This is also the basic point made by Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, in his announcement that he wouldn’t enforce the Arizona law. Said Dupnik, "If I tell my people to go out and look for A, B, and C, they're going to do it. They'll find some flimsy excuse like a tail light that's not working as a basis for a stop, which is a bunch of baloney."

Apparently in response to criticism from out of state, the Arizona legislature has amended the law to change "lawful contact" to "lawful stop, detention or arrest." Although a "lawful stop" really doesn't seem like it would have excluded, say, Coates in Chelsea, that's not the worst of it. The amendment also requires officers responding to city ordinance violations to inquire about immigration status, again if they have reasonable suspicion.

The Center for American Progress recently obtained an email sent by Kris Kobach, a lawyer for the Immigration Reform Law Institute, the group which claims it drafted the bill, to Arizona state Sen. Russell Pearce, who was its sponsor. The email was sent as the legislature prepared the amendment to the law that was signed by Gov. Jan Brewer last Friday. Kobach wrote,

When we drop out "lawful contact" and replace it with "a stop, detention, or rest, in the enforcement a violation of any title or section of the Arizona code" we need to add "or any county or municipal ordinance." This will allow police to use violations of property codes (ie, cars on blocks in the yard) or rental codes (too many occupants of a rental accommodation) to initiate queries as well.

I have not received anything from the people on the phone this afternoon. Please ensure that they make this addition as well. Thanks!


I have no real complaint with lawyers in Washington writing laws for state legislators. Both sides do that kind of thing, and there's nothing inherently wrong with turning to out-of-state experts. But what Kobach dictated to Pearce here was a recommendation to broaden the scope of police power to maximize the probability of racial profiling. Coates' point, and Dupnik's, that police can find a reason to stop someone when they want to stop someone, probably held true for Arizona before the bill's new amendment. It certainly still does after. The crucial thing that Kobach revealed in this email is that questioning people with brown skin under essentially trumped-up pretexts isn't just a bug in the law. The legislation doesn't accidentally risk the possibility of a campaign of harassment. It builds it in. It's what it was written to do.

Um, if you read what I was saying, that was my point. People who are hardworking, trying to make it work for their families and would come over legally if we weren't such an arrogant society, are turned into criminals because we try to prevent their culture from overrunning ours. Probably tens of thousands who are here illegally could be productive members of our society, pay taxes, not overcrowd the jails, and in turn send money to their families which could help Mexican society as well. Instead they earn their money on the sly, they don't pay full taxes, they still use our services, they fall into other lawbreaking cultures since they are, as you said, already criminalized. It really is a tragedy.

There we go...we're the bad people because we don't welcome lawbreakers.

They MAY be nice people who work hard, but the first act they do on our soil is BREAKING THE LAW and disrespecting our nation.

I don't understand how people can't grasp this.

As for them being productive...they're counterproductive to our nation's prosperity when they steal welfare, aid, housing and even medical treatment they're not entitled to. When I was in the E.R. last month (with insurance I pay for) to get my gushing wound sewn up, across the hall were some people cursing in English and mixing in loud Spanish. They were complaining about having to wait to get their stomach aches looked at. The doctor stitching me up said something I really appreciated, she said to me "You have a real, legitimate emergency, we're going to take care of you first. Some people come in here and demand to be taken care of right away for minor things, and they're not even supposed to be here."

It was refreshing to hear but makes the point even more...whether they are nice people and hard workers or not, they're here draining our society and economy while they're breaking the law.

There we go...we're the bad people because we don't welcome lawbreakers.

They MAY be nice people who work hard, but the first act they do on our soil is BREAKING THE LAW and disrespecting our nation.

I don't understand how people can't grasp this.

As for them being productive...they're counterproductive to our nation's prosperity when they steal welfare, aid, housing and even medical treatment they're not entitled to. When I was in the E.R. last month (with insurance I pay for) to get my gushing wound sewn up, across the hall were some people cursing in English and mixing in loud Spanish. They were complaining about having to wait to get their stomach aches looked at. The doctor stitching me up said something I really appreciated, she said to me "You have a real, legitimate emergency, we're going to take care of you first. Some people come in here and demand to be taken care of right away for minor things, and they're not even supposed to be here."

It was refreshing to hear but makes the point even more...whether they are nice people and hard workers or not, they're here draining our society and economy while they're breaking the law.

First of all, ER visits are supposed to be handled in order of severity, so you should've been seen first.

Second, it's flat out racist that they were assumed to be illegal simply because they spoke Spanish.

Funny how the news has ignored the violence at some of these protest. Instead they say the Tea Party rallies are full of hate and violence.

YouTube - Arizona immigration protest turns violent riot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn0HdZlIDKQ&feature=related)

I could not find any video of the buildings damaged this weekend.

First of all, ER visits are supposed to be handled in order of severity, so you should've been seen first.

Second, it's flat out racist that they were assumed to be illegal simply because they spoke Spanish.

Racist. The word you use when you can't dispute a fact.

:Flush:


Funny how the news has ignored the violence at some of these protest. Instead they say the Tea Party rallies are full of hate and violence.

YouTube - Arizona immigration protest turns violent riot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn0HdZlIDKQ&feature=related)

Ironic, isn't it.

Racist. The word you use when you can't dispute a fact.

:Flush:




Ironic, isn't it.

So, by that logic, you just assume anyone whose native language isn't English is an illegal immigrant?

Well said and how have you been doing?

I've been doing well, thanks. Just bought my first house in time for the tax credit. :)

The majority of these people don't come here looking to break the law or disrespect the country. They seek better lives for the children and grandchildren so that maybe one day they can have the freedom and opportunity to go to a good university, become a doctor, a moderator on a message board, or a scientist, or a lawyer, or a captain of industry, and so on.

I've been doing well, thanks. Just bought my first house in time for the tax credit. :)

Smart man. I replaced my windows because it was cheaper to replace them with the tax credit then it was to have the old ones painted. Enjoy your new home and that saying there is always something that needs doing when you own one is true. I actually enjoy doing projects around the house especially when it requires pulling out the power tools.