Sad Commentary...

Something tells me the people who supposedly hate the candidates haven't looked deep enough into all the issues. The election just wasn't all about the war and terrorism.

But who should be blamed? The voters for not educating themselves? The media for hounding on the war and terrorism, the candidates for always resorting to smear campaigns and not discussing the issues?

I guess there's plenty of blame to go around.

Matty, I agree that there are plenty of distractions, misinformation and rationalizations for not voting. The bottom line, however, is that it is a person's choice not to vote. Ultimately, the "blame" has to lie with the person who chooses not participate. Regardless of the paff, a citizen a) can find out the necessary info to make a choice and b) take steps (prior to the election date if need be) to ensure that their vote is counted.

I am not trying to be argumentative, I appreciate your support for the concept. It just irks me that we can, as in so many things, find ways to absolve ourselves of our duties to others as citizens.

I'll try and shut up now.

The instructor of a freshman public speaking class I had a few years back worked on capitol hill for states such as your's. Her job was to try and convince law makers to give these border states some money for hospital costs. She sounded like she didn't want to refuse service, but just wanted some money to cover the expenses.

The money would help for sure. I would not someone to die or not get taken care of, though this ballot measure may have done just that. This vote was AZ's frustration with illegal immigration issues. This was a vote that crossed all party lines. All of our politicians on both sides opposed the measure and millions were spent advertising against it, but the voters passed it anyway.

Matty, I agree that there are plenty of distractions, misinformation and rationalizations for not voting. The bottom line, however, is that it is a person's choice not to vote. Ultimately, the "blame" has to lie with the person who chooses not participate. Regardless of the paff, a citizen a) can find out the necessary info to make a choice and b) take steps (prior to the election date if need be) to ensure that their vote is counted.

I am not trying to be argumentative, I appreciate your support for the concept. It just irks me that we can, as in so many things, find ways to absolve ourselves of our duties to others as citizens.

I'll try and shut up now.
I agree that ultimately it's up to the voter, but I was just pointing out there's alot of muck out there, some intentional and some not, that people have to fight through to get to the real issues at hand. Unfortunately alot of people don't care enough to take the time.

Healthcare was a big issue. I want the drugs from Canada and I need affordable health care when I can no longer be on my parents insurance yet will still be in school. Lots of schools give good care through their systems, but every little bit helps.

Five Reasons Kerry didn't win:

1. Florida's Cuban population promised they would vote for Kerry because of Bush's oppressive policies concerning Cuba. Never the less they voted for Bush.

2. The Black and White middleclass believed that Bush had done the right thing in Iraq and since they still have a job things are better.

3.The Republicans were organized at the polls with representatives to intimidate voters while Democratic representatives were non-existent at the poles.

4. There are a lot of people with felony convictions.

5. Not enough people saw Farenheit 911

SUNRA, bitter grapes, you think dems didn't commit minor voter fraud too?? you personally were assured by the entire cuban voting bloc of which way they'd vote? (I actually think cubans, like other hispanics, where projected to vote REP... more likely to be strongly religious etc) I personally saw F911 and thought it was purposefully misguiding people (which it is), and that it was a completely biased work... it's not a documentry like so many people think... those have to be OBJECTIVE.

You say the republicans intimidated people? where's the proof? At my polling place there were 2 rep and 2 dem poll watchers, and the same number of people handing out rep sample ballots as dem samples... Bush won by 4 MILLION in popular votes, america made its choice.

About the illegal immigrants:
I don't think tis fair that you can sneak into a country and live/work there without tis consent, not pay taxes, not be subject to many laws, and yet still get the FULL benefits of being a citizen (school, health care, roads etc etc)... that's crap, and passing laws like that are in effect saying, "hey, why wait in line to become a legal citizen when you can just sneak in ahead of everyone else and get the same protection and benefits?"

About the illegal immigrants:
I don't think tis fair that you can sneak into a country and live/work there without tis consent, not pay taxes, not be subject to many laws, and yet still get the FULL benefits of being a citizen (school, health care, roads etc etc)... that's crap, and passing laws like that are in effect saying, "hey, why wait in line to become a legal citizen when you can just sneak in ahead of everyone else and get the same protection and benefits?"

That's why the voters out here voted in favor of curbing benefits. Its very similiar to the proposition CA voters passed 10 years ago and like CA, this is heading for court despite the will of AZ's voters.

THATGUY, I'll start with your last comment first. First of all, I don't know where the Native American Immigration Service is that gave European immigrants the right to decide how long it should be before a person becomes an American, but that kind of arrogance is the reason why other countries look at the this country with disdain and hatred. Euorpean immigrants are welcomed here, while Haitians, Jamacans, Trinidadians are forced out of the country or put on a list to wait thirty years before they get citizenship.

Secondly, if you are not African-American or Native American then I would expect you to take the position that the intimidation of voters at the polls was not a factor. If you voted in the suburbs of Virginia and not the inner cities of America then your vote was not considered a threat to Bush and his oppressive policies. My proof was from family members in Florida who stated that "people were at the predominantly Black polls asking people if they had a felony convictions. I'm sure they didn't ask you that in at your poll site In addition, CNN reported that Native Americans in North Dakota were being followed by unmarked cars while people wrote down liscense plate numbers.

Lastly, Farenheit 911 was made to confirm for what people like myself had already known. In other words, Moore was preaching to the converted. That's why it was well received at the Cannes Film Festival. The best way to understand Bush is to let him attempt to articulate intelligently the speeches he has memorized then try to use medifores that reveals his stupidity. Remember the " If you fool me twice." analogy? Bush beats them all. Dumb, Dumber and Dumbest.

at my polling place there were plenty of african-americans, and they weren't voting for bush... and again, voter fraud happens on both sides every election... homeless guys offered alcohol for their votes, abusing same day voter registration etc...

immigration: illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, yet they take our money freely, you can shove that arrogance crap, they're stealing. Otherwise, next time i go to the doctor, i'll foward you the bill so you can pay it for me, but don't expect em to do anything in return. Sound fair? didn't think so.

You obviously like F911 cause it told you strictly what you wanted to hear without an objectivity to to temper your vitriolic emotions... that's good for you, but moore won't let people use his own methods to document himself, so there's obviously something wrong there, and even moore admits it was a completely biased film and he was trying to swing people to vote against bush any way he could. Your point about bush not being a great orator has absolutely no bearing on anything that's been discussed... sorry, sounds as if you just couldn't find a good point to make so "bush is dumb" was the best you could do... that has nothing to do with the objectivity of moore's work though.... and by the way, cannes is in france, and they love anything anti-american, so its really a big surprise they praised moore's work. You know that cuba and iran show F911 for free in their countries cause his propaganda is THAT one sided against america...