Forcefeeding

point is, Ramsey didn't outplay Brunell. Gibbs did take a serious look.



ANY wide receiver's play is heavily dependent on QB play, whose play is determined by OLine play. YOU started off by saying you were giving Portis 'slack', when in the face of every defense stacking up the line, he's been productive IN SPITE of the Oline and QB play. and i dunno what you're talking about contracts now?



of COURSE it's a matter of time Ramsey will play, Ramsey is our QB of the future, as said by Gibbs himself. but he will only good be after he's learned a couple more things on the field, and our oLine improves.


I was talking about contract's in a comparative fashion, because you essentially said that because Portis is our most talented player that he is our most productive player which is just not true, we all know Portis is our most talented player, but Gardner has outplayed him, if Gardner was a more talented player he would be impossible to sign because we would have to pay him like Portis, this wasen't a debate over who has more talent, it was a debate over who has been more productive, I never thought I would say it but I don't see any way we could vote for anyone on offense MVP right now other than Gardner, and I think it's hand's down.

And no I wouldn't consider Portis productive right now, if you measure production on average you will find he is below average, and if you measure production by contract then he's a bust right now, let's face it you said a lot of a WR's success is due to the QB, well so is the RB's, the sooner we get Brunell out of there the sooner player's will start filling their potential.

There are to many on this board who want to hold Ramsey to a higher accountability than Brunell, that's just not fair, Brunell was the guy brought here to step right in and be productive because of his experience, and here we are grooming a 34 year old over the hill QB with a lot of recent injury problem's, many want to bring up rookies like B. Roth and compare Ramsey to him, well how bout comparing a seasoned veteran to BR? It's obvious Brunell isn't capable of outplaying a rookie! Brunell is obviously not who Gibb's felt he would be. peace out!

I agree Ramsey is not the way to go neither is Hasselback . First off the offensive line sucks, that is the problem...............

I was talking about contract's in a comparative fashion, because you essentially said that because Portis is our most talented player that he is our most productive player which is just not true, we all know Portis is our most talented player, but Gardner has outplayed him, if Gardner was a more talented player he would be impossible to sign because we would have to pay him like Portis, this wasen't a debate over who has more talent, it was a debate over who has been more productive, I never thought I would say it but I don't see any way we could vote for anyone on offense MVP right now other than Gardner, and I think it's hand's down.

And no I wouldn't consider Portis productive right now, if you measure production on average you will find he is below average, and if you measure production by contract then he's a bust right now, let's face it you said a lot of a WR's success is due to the QB, well so is the RB's, the sooner we get Brunell out of there the sooner player's will start filling their potential.

There are to many on this board who want to hold Ramsey to a higher accountability than Brunell, that's just not fair, Brunell was the guy brought here to step right in and be productive because of his experience, and here we are grooming a 34 year old over the hill QB with a lot of recent injury problem's, many want to bring up rookies like B. Roth and compare Ramsey to him, well how bout comparing a seasoned veteran to BR? It's obvious Brunell isn't capable of outplaying a rookie! Brunell is obviously not who Gibb's felt he would be. peace out!

uh, our whole offense is way below average. Portis has the majority of our offensive yards, and thats in spite of every defense stacking the line, something Gardner benefits greatly from. stop rationalizing. as bad as our offense is, the run has set up the pass by far. no one is doubling Gardner. when they stack the line, they are essentially tripling Portis. he's done the most with the least help, not even a FB to lead block for him, and his presence has done the most for this offense. he just can't do it alone. even one-dimensional teams like Denver and Minnesota, have a great oLine and passer, some other element to the mix. we have neither.

but at least teams have to respect the fact that ramsey can throw the ball more than 15 yards...

Yep! Did you see the Packer defense repeatedly line up EVERYONE (safeties included) within 10 yards from the line of scrimmage?

...did u see the hail mary at the end of the 2nd? it went to the 10!!! and we were past midfield...

That was too funny! Even if we had caught it we wouldn't have scored. Daah!

But we all have faith. Faith that Gibbs will turn it around - which will be the moment he benches Brunell. Isn't that how he turned it around before? By going to Rypien and Williams and when they were back ups?

uh, our whole offense is way below average. Portis has the majority of our offensive yards, and thats in spite of every defense stacking the line, something Gardner benefits greatly from. stop rationalizing. as bad as our offense is, the run has set up the pass by far. no one is doubling Gardner. when they stack the line, they are essentially tripling Portis. he's done the most with the least help, not even a FB to lead block for him, and his presence has done the most for this offense. he just can't do it alone. even one-dimensional teams like Denver and Minnesota, have a great oLine and passer, some other element to the mix. we have neither.


There is absolutly no rational to your statement.

1- you have stated that the wr's benefit from the QB

2- you have stated that the QB stink's [regardless of why]

3- you have stated that Portis isn't productive because Brunell can't throw

4- you have stated that Portis is opening the passing game

5- then you state we have neither a passing game or a running game

6- then you stated that the running game BY FAR has set up the passing game even though we have neither

Yet you refuse to give Gardner credit for having more of an impact on the games than Portis.

So let me sum this up as I see it,

Portis is the team's MVP right now even though we have no running game

Portis is responsible for Gardner's success even though we have no running game.


Gardner should thank Portis for not being able to run, and Brunell for not being able to throw, for the success he has had so far? :stop:

everyone seems to be set on the fact that ramsey will throw a lot of picks, BUT, brunell has more TOs than TDs, and has been giving up over 1.5 TOs a game compared to 1 TD/game... ramsey did much better in what everyone says was a crappier offense, so i reall don't see this as an even remotely valid arguement...

everyone seems to be set on the fact that ramsey will throw a lot of picks, BUT, brunell has more TOs than TDs, and has been giving up over 1.5 TOs a game compared to 1 TD/game... ramsey did much better in what everyone says was a crappier offense, so i reall don't see this as an even remotely valid arguement...


I just don't understand the bias against Ramsey, he went from a future pro bowler last year, to a arena football reject in 1 offseason, absolutly ridiculous.


I saw Brunell is saying the offense made strides yesterday, the only stride the offense made was that Brunell is now 1 step closer to the bench!

believe or not we do have a running game guys ;) and its above average even though he's not putting up 100 rushing yards every single game...

can we please fact check before saying ridiculous things?

and portis has had a far bigger impact than gardner... gardner is a good WR, but part of one of the worst passing attacks in the entire league right now, and a passing attack that no one respects... no way that deserves an MVP... portis has been throwing blocks, catching passes and running through stacked boxes with and without help.. and i don't know wtf you're talking about as far as production... gardner has 389 yards and one incomplete pass... portis has 803 yards...

believe or not we do have a running game guys ;) and its above average even though he's not putting up 100 rushing yards every single game...

can we please fact check before saying ridiculous things?

and portis has had a far bigger impact than gardner... gardner is a good WR, but part of one of the worst passing attacks in the entire league right now, and a passing attack that no one respects... no way that deserves an MVP... portis has been throwing blocks, catching passes and running through stacked boxes with and without help.. and i don't know wtf you're talking about as far as production... gardner has 389 yards and one incomplete pass... portis has 803 yards...

Who touches the ball more? Who has to rely on an incompetent QB to get him the ball, I want to know what Portis has done thus far that any other RB couldn't have done? Gardner comparativly as a WR has done far more than Portis to impact games, unless you want to count Portis's fumbles, 5td's for Gardner 2 for Portis, Gardner has made all the big play's for us this year which isn't saying much but it's been better than Portis, I don't want to hear that Potis is a warrior because he keep's running into a stacked line, he isn't getting through them, any back can do that, he's had 2 100yd games out of 7, he has 2 rushing TD's worst in the NFL amoung full time starters, bottom line who has been the go to guy when the game is on the line? Gardner, he almost single handily beat dallas, and he almost did it again yesterday, you can talk about talent all you want, Gardner is the one producing, and he is up against just as much of a stacked deck as Portis, Portis has no where to run, Gardner has no one to throw him the ball, and yet he's managed to outplay Portis, what happened to all the Barry Sander's comparison's I was hearing a few week's ago, when did Sander's ever need blocking, why can't Portis make something out of nothing? Gardner has made catches when they weren't there, catches that most reciever's only dream of catching, If Portis is everything everyone say's he is, he should be doing far better than he's doing now, I like Portis but right now regardless of the reason he has not impacted games like Gardner has, and I was Gardner's biggest detracter.

I guess Gardner doesn't block, and if Portis is blocking so well how come so many here keep saying Brunell protection is below average?

There is absolutly no rational to your statement.

Yet you refuse to give Gardner credit for having more of an impact on the games than Portis.

So let me sum this up as I see it,

Portis is the team's MVP right now even though we have no running game

Portis is responsible for Gardner's success even though we have no running game.


Gardner should thank Portis for not being able to run, and Brunell for not being able to throw, for the success he has had so far?

offiss cut it out, you know precisely what i'm saying. we have a limited OFFENSE. passing game AND running game. but of the two, the running game has been more productive AND is responsible for the little pass attack we DO have. no one respects Brunell, therefore, they don't respect Gardner. if you don't understand that relationship then i'll stop arguing any further.

what little offense we DO have, is because of Portis. and EVERY team we've played so far has played to stop him by crowding the line. they'll either get to Portis or Brunell, cuz NOBODY is worried about what happens downfield. don't believe me? check our 3rd down stats mmk?

talk about not making sense, you claim Gardner is offensive MVP but are calling for the head of the guy who throws him the ball!

Portis has the most offensive yards IN SPITE of Brunell (and consequentially Gardner). Gardner has what he has BECAUSE of Brunell AND Portis. ya dig