Portis staying?

You are correct....It was in 1985 and John was invited to the white house. Joe Gibbs had nothing to do with it.

But I don't think it would have mattered. The only thing that I dont like about the Riggins and Portis comparisons, is that some people here are making it out like Portis worked just as hard as Riggins. And that is simply not true. Riggins was a team player. He had his own issues (drunkness, other things), but he always worked to help the team. You never heard about him badmouthing everybody under the sun all the while playing on a broken back...

I'm sure Gibbs had his hands full. Especially with him showing up drunk. But there is no comparison. The only real problem we had with Riggins was his not wanting to show up for camp that "one" year. Gibbs went out to see him and talked him back into playing. Other wise Riggins was a model player. I loved the guy but even when he was getting older and slowing down and not being as effective I wanted him out. I didn't care what he provided on the field in the past or what his legacy said about him. It was about was he worth keeping on the field or could we get younger at that position, faster and healthier?

Again I like Portis. I think he's funny, but he has several things going against him....
Age
Injury prone
Concussion (this ones the biggie. Some players couldn't return)

I don't mean to say that he allowed it in that sense, but there was also no discipline imposed, which today would probably be demanded. My point was to say that Gibbs gave players room to be themselves and probably directed that energy toward team building, should I have used the camo dress up before the dallas game, or other antics of Riggo. I don't think being a character or diva in and of itself is bad, but if not managed and guided into positive outlets, than it will become destructive, and that is what has happened with Portis through the Zorn Experiment.

I see what your saying. The only thing I don't like about Gibbs was he eliminated some really great talented players cause he believed in character. I think the character of the team would be able to keep the 1 or 2 diva's on the team in check. But Gibbs wouldn't even look at some players even though they were the best at their position. He simply would settle for the blue colar character guy. However he did get the job done. :)

About the concussion issue; latest word is that doctors have still not cleared him, he is still having vision concerns, and i suspect that will be a MAJOR factor considering next year for him.

If kept on, he will likely be ineligible to practice/attend OTA's (who would have guessed), due to the lack of physical clearance, and depending on if/how he has insurance set up, he may have to show to the insurance company that the redskins decided on his football future, and not him...very similar to the Theismann situation..

If he is put on injury waivers i'm not sure how that will affect his status to play for another team...i also don't know how that will affect our salary/cap, or whatever, if he is waived.

I'm just assuming if waived, another team can pick him up, but they would still have to get him cleared to play....

My user name has nothing to do with this issue.

It has about as much to do with it as Jason Campbell's passing performance, but like I said -- totally off topic. I just found it interesting since I consider myself a Monk fan as well, and Portis' attitudes in several areas rub me the wrong way.

I'm a football fan chief, I can also take the Redskins shades off to judge a player for them and not what a newspaper or talk show host wants me to think.

That's good; that tells me you'd be able to objectively put your appreciation for Portis' past performance on the field aside and consider the realities of what he may or may not do next year.

I didn't say a thing about Williams and Jones but I'll meet you there also. Delhomme is one of the FEW QB's that I wouldn't drop Campbell for and Favre had a bad year BUUUUUUT he did throw 22 TD's as well. Campbells performance is relevant when the O-Line is one of the reasons given for his production or lack there of, he's another subject for me. On to the subject at hand.

Okay, you proved me wrong by saying that Favre and Delhomme had bad years? Makes no sense. My point was you used another irrelevant measure to compare Portis and Campbell, which makes no sense at all. And the only reason you even brought Jason up was to trash him because "all you guys who love Jason will be sorry when Portis leaves" or whatever.

Now, it took Portis 342 attempts to gain those yards, So the F what. He got them didn't he. Obviously there were a lot of men in the box, or maybe the same line that you would complain about Jason having to play behind gave him the same grief. I guess that doesn't count.

So the F what? It's called yards per carry. If you gave Fred Smoot enough carries he could gain a lot of yards rushing, too. 1500 yards is 1500 yards, and you can't sneeze at that, but what does it mean when the team still failed to do anything AND Portis was so abused that he spent half the following season injured?

The *fact* (yes, I use them) remains that when Portis has had 1500 yard seasons or very close to them, the next year he has missed 8 games. TWICE. That ain't coincidence, dude, that's mechanical failure.

I can't believe that you can really discount the fact that he put the team on his back for 2 playoff runs. Honestly, but you say because they lost that it was HIS fault ? WOW

No, I didn't discount them and I didn't say the losses were solely on Clinton. But the fact remains that the dude requires so many touches to generate yardage that by the time the playoffs roll around he is spent, and that IS a major reason we failed to advance -- lack of a solid run game! You cannot dispute this! If you say he's such a huge reason for the team's success, how can he NOT bear blame when he breaks down during those playoff games?

I really wish you had looked up stats before you thought about choosing me as the guy to make a name on.

The hilarious part is that you reposted the same information I did, and seem to think I missed Portis' 1500 yard seasons, when I explicitly called it out in my response.


Do you notice something ? Like I said, He knows what he had in Portis, and that guy is not done.

Yes, I noticed that Shanahan got the best shutdown corner in the league and then replaced Portis' 1500 yards with 1000 yards from a bunch of nobodies. Did he miss those 500 yards? I'm sure, but I think he was happy with the team's relative improvement even if he didn't have the #1 ranked rushing offense.

Man this thread sucks....everybody is at everybody's throat....We don't need that here....the thing i like about the WP is that everybody is usually so relaxed.

Some of these debates are good though...

I like a point that I am seeing ground out here: Everyone here appreciates CP's past work for us...however only a few people still feel that his past work should give him an indefinate pass on the future

I see what your saying. The only thing I don't like about Gibbs was he eliminated some really great talented players cause he believed in character. I think the character of the team would be able to keep the 1 or 2 diva's on the team in check. But Gibbs wouldn't even look at some players even though they were the best at their position. He simply would settle for the blue colar character guy. However he did get the job done. :)

It will be interesting to see how the Skins fan base, who overall hate divas IMO, will deal with Shanahan. He has been known to look past that to get his guy, or his team. He is different from Gibbs in that way, but again, I think it points to the fact that a good/great coach knows the players he can handle. You look at Josh McD in Denver, he couldn't handle the same players that Shanahan could. Zorn couldn't handle the players Gibbs could (well Zorn couldn't handle the players- but let us not digress). Great coaches bring players that will respond to them, or at least they bring players that they THINK will respond to them. Under Bruce Allen/Shanahan, I think we will see our fair share of Diva's and "cancers", but I think many will flourish under Shanahan's coaching.

So does that mean Portis is staying? No, I think the points you and Snake raised about the cap and the concussions are extremely legitimate, and if there was a potential to get rid of Portis in a trade, or relieve the team of his salary(in future years where a cap may or may not come back into play), I think that will happen.

Man this thread sucks....everybody is at everybody's throat....We don't need that here....the thing i like about the WP is that everybody is usually so relaxed.

Some of these debates are good though...

I like a point that I am seeing ground out here: Everyone here appreciates CP's past work for us...however only a few people still feel that his past work should give him an indefinate pass on the future

You know, you're right about that Snake and I guess it's the tone of some posts that seem to be angling for people to argue with them. The dumbest part of it is that it doesn't matter what any of us argue here, either the guy stays or goes, and it's going to come down to impressing a guy who traded him away several years ago.

From my posts in this thread you'd probably think I'm anti-Portis, but I've got the man's jersey hanging in my closet (next to my Monk and my Campbell, ironically), and my signature image from the Fantasy bulletin board I used to frequent calls me the driver of the Portis Bandwagon, because I've been that guy when a lot of folks said he was done.

For me, Portis has taken a decidely Arenas turn this past season, where mileage and injuries are catching up to him and his behavior hasn't exactly been the kind of foundation you can build a locker room around. That doesn't take away from what he has done on the field in the past, but I also do not think we are going to win many football games in the future relying on CP to shoulder the load.

So I'll just agree to disagree with MonkFan and anyone else who wants to hold on to the guy. And no more going for the throat, lol.

I'm glad everybody realizes the big picture...seriously....we really will be better off as a franchise without him....our young talent will be better off without somebody holding us back...

Well i'm glad there are at least a FEW people here that know stats and know real football and make valid comments. Metal Gear only uses opinions and his best defense is exaggerating other people's statements.

Question, if ANYONE can have success in Shanahan's system, why has nobody done as well in it since Portis? If players are interchangable, why didn't Shanahan get any rings after Elway and Terrell Davis were gone? Answer that, Solid.

Our two last playoff berths were mostly on the back of Portis and we crapped out in out last playoff game because Todd Collins let one pick lead to more and turn him into a typical rookie, scared to make another mistake. Another big factor was the greatest player of our defense, God rest his soul, left a huge hole in our backfield when he passed away. Once again, when you play normal teams, Yes, Santana can be the man. But when you'r eplaying a playoff level team, the number 2 and 3 receivers HAVE to step up! (This is the point you missed when you THOUGHT i was comparing Moss to Reggie Wayne)
All we had was moss, cooley was too busy blocking to make a difference in the passing game, so of COURSE they handed Portis the ball over and over! He'd take the ball with sore ribs, a bad shoulder, and a twisted ankle and STILL have a higher YPC than Betts or any other guy we have AS WELL as most many other starters. I'm not all about portis and i'm not in his fan club, i'm stating facts! Now, if you have anything other than "Oh, so you think portis is perfect!?" then let it be known. If not, go put on your pink Tony Romo jersey and let the real Redskins fans talk!

He'd take the ball with sore ribs, a bad shoulder, and a twisted ankle and STILL have a higher YPC than Betts or any other guy we have AS WELL as most many other starters. I'm not all about portis and i'm not in his fan club, i'm stating facts!

Betts 2009 YPC: 3.8
Ganther 2009 YPC: 3.2
Mason 2009 YPC: 4.0
Portis 2009 YPC: 4.0

Those are facts, son. Portis was on par with Ladell Betts, as well as Marcus Mason. Ganther was the only one who paled in comparison. Still working on your "higher than most other starters" argument...but here you go below

Top Running Backs from 2009

Chris Johnson: 2,006 yards 5.6 YPC
Cedric Benson: 1,251 yards 4.2 YPC
Steven Jackson: 1,416 yards 4.4 YPC
Thomas Jones: 1,402 yards 4.2 YPC
Maurice Jones-Drew: 1,391 yards 4.5 YPC

Your precious Portis wasn't higher than any of those starts listed above. So i know you hate facts, but Portis wasnt better than anybody this season...especially not on our team. And i dont have to exaggerate statements because your opinion of Portis can't be reasoned with. You dont care about anybody else's opinion but your own. So take these facts and try and learn something.

Your quote at the top is what is so ironic, because you get on me for saying untruths and exaggerating...but then look at the shit you say.