Here is a "hidden problem" we haven't addressed yet...

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sportscurmudgeon
12-30-2009, 05:35 PM
Let me post this now - - before Jim Zorn is fired early next week and we all begin to fantasize about how wonderful things will be under the new regime starting with free agent signings and going all the way through the Super Bowl in Feb 2011 where the Redskins will surely be favored by at least 2 TDs. I don’t want anyone complaining that all I want to do is rain on a parade.

The Redskins need an extreme makeover. This roster is insufficient when it comes to talent and depth. This coaching staff is insufficient when it comes to creativity and motivational skills. This front office - - or at least the one under the now departed EVP - - was insufficient. The likelihood that all of those insufficiencies will be corrected and that all of the new folks brought in here will blossom immediately into huge success figures is remote. This is gonna take time folks; gird yourself for it; this team is significantly worse than the one at the end of the “Spurrier Era”.

What I would like for folks to focus on is an area of the football operation here that seems not to have come under sufficient scrutiny in the past year or so. That would be the scouting department.

Look, I think Vinny Cerrato is a football goofball; I shed nary a tear when he left town and I sincerely hope that he will NOT get a “consulting contract” with the Redskins or any kind of “advisory position” with Danny Boy. But don’t rule that out…

Having said that I think Cerrato is a football goofball, I am sure that he is not the only person in the organization who worked at evaluating college and pro players who ought to be brought to the team for evaluation on the practice/playing field. Even if Cerrato was the guy who made the final call on draft day the last few years, he did not pull the list of potential players out of his own head without the input of others. When he went around to sign free agents or scour other teams “culls” to bring someone in for an evaluation to fill a roster hole, he had to have input from someone else.

So, who was it in the scouting department who created the input that led to some of these decisions:

1. Chad Rinehart could play OG well enough that the Skins should spend a 3rd round pick on him. I’ve seen him play in about 3 games and have seen no sparks of brilliance from him. Which scout saw what games in college that led to Rinehart being on the list as a potential third-rounder?

2. Wil Montgomery was an NFL-caliber offensive lineman. Two words jump to mind here - - can't play.

3. Devin Thomas was a better football player than Desean Jackson. I know there were “character issues” around Jackson on draft day; and if that is why the Skins took Thomas over Jackson, that’s fine with me. But if any of the scouts made notes saying that Jackson was the inferior player, I’d want to consider finding a new scout for that region of the country.

4. D’Anthony Batiste was an NFL-caliber offensive lineman. Have you seen enough of this guy? I have.

5. C.J. Brooks, Paul Fanaika, William Robinson - - you get the picture.

6. DeAngelo Hall was worth $20M+ guaranteed as a cornerback. Remember, he was jettisoned by the Raiders in mid-season because he was too big a pain in the ass there to keep around. How spectacular were the Raiders in 2008 that they could just throw away a stud cornerback? I seem to recall that the Raiders stunk in 2008...

7. Kevin Huntley was going to be a quality DE in the NFL - - it’s been 3 years now…


The point is that the new GM or President of Football Operations or Grand Wizard of Football who comes in here has to depend on his scouting staff to a large degree because there are not enough hours in a year for that person to evaluate all of the players that need evaluating. And if the scouting staff is missing good players and identifying stiffs, then maybe part of the housecleaning has to be in that wing of the building.

I promise you will hear nothing from the podium when Danny Boy introduces his next victim - - I mean head coach - - about how the failures of the personnel department in the past led to the situation that the new guy is here to fix. But, that is potentially a HUGE part of the problem and we will have to take it as an article of faith that Danny Boy and the new guy have figured that out. For the record, I don’t think Danny Boy has that figured out at all…

Why did I call the next head coach a victim? Consider this:

Since Danny Boy bought the team and inherited Norv Truner as his coach, he has had one interim coach and four permanent head coaches since firing Norv. Not a single one of them has ever coached another NFL game once Danny Boy fired them.

BigHairedAristocrat
12-30-2009, 05:57 PM
A few thoughts:

- your posts are rather "rantish" today.Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? did you eat something thats upsetting your intestinal tract? have you suffered a severe head trauma?

- I noticed the url in your sig. why did the internet let you have a website?

- Devin Thomas is tall and we already had 2 starting smurfish WRs. DeShean Jackson isnt. Cerrato said on his radio show prior to the 2008 draft, the team was very impressed with Jackson but he just didnt fit the teams needs (tall posession receiver) at the time.

- you sure are criticizing alot of decisions on undrafted free agents. its not like they are generally accepted to become starting caliber players. otherwise, they would have, you know, been drafted.

- I dont think the scouting department has anything to do with deciding contract terms.

- Bruce Allen will make all contract decisions from now on.

- no scouting department is right 100% of the time. even the best teams in the NFL only hit on about 60% of their picks.

- since you don't like our scouting department, you might like this. we discussed it a couple of weeks ago in the shanahan thread.

NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Redskins hiring Allen first move towards Shanahan? « (http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/12/17/shanahan-leading-candidate-for-redskins-coach-in-2010/)

continue to hear from multiple league sources that Mike Shanahan remains the most likely choice to take over as the Washington Redskins’ head coach in 2010, and the hiring of Bruce Allen is but one move in an organizational overhaul....

...The Redskins will explore candidates to round out the front office in player-personnel roles, according to sources, with current personnel executives such as Eric DeCosta (Baltimore), Bobby DePaul (Chicago) and Doug Williams (Tampa Bay) among possibilities. The Redskins came close to hiring DePaul to replace Cerrato twice during the Gibbs regime, according to sources, and DeCosta, a rising star as Ozzie Newsome’s top lieutenant with the Ravens, began his career with the Redskins. Williams won a Super Bowl as the Redskins’ quarterback and worked under Allen for the Buccaneers in personnel.

Snyder also has been impressed with the work of Morocco Brown, in his first season as Washington’s director of pro personnel, and he could be someone to remain in a revamped front office.

Paintrain
12-30-2009, 06:05 PM
I'm not ready to praise or condemn any football decisions before they occur (as we could often do with Vinny) until I see the people in place and the structure. You have a point that Vinny wasn't operating in a vacuum and making all of those decisions independently but some of the Redskins FO personnel are highly regarded in the league like Morocco Brown and Scott Campbell. Your cautious tone is noted but see what develops before burying the new regime already.

SmootSmack
12-30-2009, 06:12 PM
I don’t want anyone complaining that all I want to do is rain on a parade.

You wouldn't be curmudgeon if you didn't :)

Look, I think Vinny Cerrato is a football goofball; I shed nary a tear when he left town and I sincerely hope that he will NOT get a “consulting contract” with the Redskins or any kind of “advisory position” with Danny Boy. But don’t rule that out…

He won't be

1. Chad Rinehart could play OG well enough that the Skins should spend a 3rd round pick on him. I’ve seen him play in about 3 games and have seen no sparks of brilliance from him. Which scout saw what games in college that led to Rinehart being on the list as a potential third-rounder?

2. Wil Montgomery was an NFL-caliber offensive lineman. Two words jump to mind here - - can't play.

3. Devin Thomas was a better football player than Desean Jackson. I know there were “character issues” around Jackson on draft day; and if that is why the Skins took Thomas over Jackson, that’s fine with me. But if any of the scouts made notes saying that Jackson was the inferior player, I’d want to consider finding a new scout for that region of the country.

4. D’Anthony Batiste was an NFL-caliber offensive lineman. Have you seen enough of this guy? I have.

5. C.J. Brooks, Paul Fanaika, William Robinson - - you get the picture.

6. DeAngelo Hall was worth $20M+ guaranteed as a cornerback. Remember, he was jettisoned by the Raiders in mid-season because he was too big a pain in the ass there to keep around. How spectacular were the Raiders in 2008 that they could just throw away a stud cornerback? I seem to recall that the Raiders stunk in 2008...

7. Kevin Huntley was going to be a quality DE in the NFL - - it’s been 3 years now…

1. There were a lot of teams that saw Rinehart as a 3rd-4th round pick. Let's not close the book on him

2. Cerrato and the scouts signed Montgomery to a minimum risk contract to come in and compete with the many other linemen they brought in (it's what every single team in the NFL does). It's the coaching staff that decided to keep him on the roster

3. We're still bitching about this?

4. Feels like the 100th time I've told you, he's not on the roster

5. Chris Samuels injured, Randy Thomas injured, Chad Rinehart injured...you get the picture

6. The scouts have nothing to do with the players get paid

7. Kevin Huntley? Holy crap, you're really reaching now. You're blasting the scouting department for bringing in a mini-camp body?


The point is that the new GM or President of Football Operations or Grand Wizard of Football who comes in here has to depend on his scouting staff to a large degree because there are not enough hours in a year for that person to evaluate all of the players that need evaluating. And if the scouting staff is missing good players and identifying stiffs, then maybe part of the housecleaning has to be in that wing of the building.

I promise you will hear nothing from the podium when Danny Boy introduces his next victim - - I mean head coach - - about how the failures of the personnel department in the past led to the situation that the new guy is here to fix. But, that is potentially a HUGE part of the problem and we will have to take it as an article of faith that Danny Boy and the new guy have figured that out. For the record, I don’t think Danny Boy has that figured out at all…

There were changes to the scouting dept. when Vinny took over in 2008 and there certainly will be this off-season as well.

Since Danny Boy bought the team and inherited Norv Truner as his coach, he has had one interim coach and four permanent head coaches since firing Norv. Not a single one of them has ever coached another NFL game once Danny Boy fired them.

Marty Schottenheimer? Even Terry Robiskie did for a couple of games in Cleveland I believe

Mudge, in spite of your perpetual negativity I think you're a smart guy but this was your worst post ever

Hog1
12-30-2009, 06:32 PM
I WILL be disappointed if...........this coming season, the Skins are not significantly improved! We'll have to wait on the SB for now.
AND since we are sitting around speculating on the obvious shortcomings of our "dead FO walking", do you not think these things may have crossed Bruces mind?
AND, AND you do sound a little.......rantish (courtesy BHA) today

Dirtbag59
12-30-2009, 06:36 PM
You wouldn't be curmudgeon if you didn't :)



I agree he definitely is a crusty, ill-tempered, and usually old man.

SBXVII
12-30-2009, 06:49 PM
OMG. Is there no satisfying everyone? For years some of us have been wanting a rebuilding of the team. Me especially. I'm tired of the whole ..."next year is the year", "just one more player", "if we had player X we'd be a contender."

I'm actually looking at this as rebuild. I hope DS is. I hope other fans are and not getting all caught up again in the Allen and Shanahan will fix this whole mess and we will be SB bound next year. Maybe this is what your trying to say, but I'm expecting at least 3-5 years to get there. I just want us to look somewhat competative starting next year.

jamf
12-30-2009, 07:30 PM
Let me translate Mudges post:

OMG WTF! What if the problem with the franchise was the scouts? OMFG with a new GM we will still have the same problem OMFG.

CRedskinsRule
12-30-2009, 07:39 PM
...

Why did I call the next head coach a victim? Consider this:

Since Danny Boy bought the team and inherited Norv Truner as his coach, he has had one interim coach and four permanent head coaches since firing Norv. Not a single one of them has ever coached another NFL game once Danny Boy fired them.

So that list is:
Robiskie
Schottenheimer
Spurrier
Gibbs
Zorn

I just don't get what you wanted to prove. It seemed irrelevant to your post in general, and I think everyone can agree that each one, except Zorn whose future is unclear as to where he will go and Robiskie, has unique circumstances unrelated to DS: Schottenheimer did coach after as Smoot said; Spurrier is back successful in college where he belongs, Gibbs ?where else would he have coached??, and Zorn - who will probably end up in Cleveland, lucky him.

I don't know how much the rest of your post holds water, but I am hoping for Bruce Allen to be able to hire/fire and build the exact staff he wants. And then I hope its a good one.

GusFrerotte
12-30-2009, 08:01 PM
Hidden problems? These issues have been blogged about before in the Locker Room. Picking Devin Thomas over Jackson wasn't that bad of a decision. Thomas has come around somewhat, just need a line to protect the QB and probably a new gunslinger behind center and he might be able to do some damage in 2010 and beyond. As for the undrafted/drafted young linemen that haven't panned out? Shit happens. THis is what you get when you do not use your top picks for linemen. Folks have been bitching about this for geez since Norv even.

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