Jurgensen thinks Campbell will be back

Totally agree....what we SHOULD do (and we are missing out as i type) is bring back JC, keep Zorn and......hire Mike Holmgren as the GM!!!!! Since he ran the WC offense and knows Zorn very well...it would make a perfect match while keeping JC in the same system. Holmgren would be able to tell if Zorn is better or Sherm Lewis at calling plays (so you solve that issue). But.......we are sitting on our hands and the Browns are making moves....I really believe this would work....thoughts???

I wouldn't have a problem with that at all, but I just can't see Snyder doing it.

ZORN has got to go. He is pointing to JC being benched in the KC game as the turning point. He is trying to spin opinions HIS WAY. The turnaround came the second half of the ATL game. He is way off and trying to be a politician. No Zorn, your plan did not work. Sherm Lewis's plan worked. Benching JC caused him to lose his play calling ability.

ZORN has got to go. He is pointing to JC being benched in the KC game as the turning point. He is trying to spin opinions HIS WAY. The turnaround came the second half of the ATL game. He is way off and trying to be a politician. No Zorn, your plan did not work. Sherm Lewis's plan worked. Benching JC caused him to lose his play calling ability.

I am quickly coming to this decision myself. Not just because of that, but because of his defense of playing ARE, his comments on Davis - to the effect that it was Davis' fault for his lack of production because until Cooley went down the coaches couldn't get Davis going. Everything Zorn defends comes from the over cautious approach of leaving the veterans in to the DETRIMENT of the rookies/2nd year class' progress. I gave a lot of credit to SLewis(still do) but I wonder if Zorn would have been an obstacle if the season ending injuries hadn't taken place. In Zorn's statement on ARE, he took responsibility, and said that it was because he is confident in ARE, but why??? because no one else had given him that confidence, but if ARE is not executing after several games, you pull him, it shouldn't take a season meltdown for a younger player to get a chance, even if he is going to make some mistakes, he might learn from them, as opposed to ARE who is not learning anything new, just making the same mistakes over and over. (sorry for the run on sentence!) Zorn made basically the same justification for not getting FD involved, but now we see that may have been a big mistake. Same with DT, get him involved and use him even if he's not 100% pro bowl yet.

All our griping about the slow development period seems to fall onto Zorn's shoulders once you listen to his defense/explanations about why FD and ARE are doing what they are doing.

And that is the HC responsibility above and beyond playcalling, and because of his defense of the indefensible I would say Zorn needs to go.

When the Browns talk to Holmgren it's "The Browns are taking decisive action now to make fundamental changes to the organization" When the Redskins talk to Shanahan it's "Dan Snyder has no patience, he's always meddling"

I don't think Snyder having a say is necessarily a problem but there needs to be a GM in place who Snyder respects and can make Snyder feel involved while at the same time doing it his way.

Like Bruce Allen

I am quickly coming to this decision myself. Not just because of that, but because of his defense of playing ARE, his comments on Davis - to the effect that it was Davis' fault for his lack of production because until Cooley went down the coaches couldn't get Davis going. Everything Zorn defends comes from the over cautious approach of leaving the veterans in to the DETRIMENT of the rookies/2nd year class' progress. I gave a lot of credit to SLewis(still do) but I wonder if Zorn would have been an obstacle if the season ending injuries hadn't taken place. In Zorn's statement on ARE, he took responsibility, and said that it was because he is confident in ARE, but why??? because no one else had given him that confidence, but if ARE is not executing after several games, you pull him, it shouldn't take a season meltdown for a younger player to get a chance, even if he is going to make some mistakes, he might learn from them, as opposed to ARE who is not learning anything new, just making the same mistakes over and over. (sorry for the run on sentence!) Zorn made basically the same justification for not getting FD involved, but now we see that may have been a big mistake. Same with DT, get him involved and use him even if he's not 100% pro bowl yet.

All our griping about the slow development period seems to fall onto Zorn's shoulders once you listen to his defense/explanations about why FD and ARE are doing what they are doing.

And that is the HC responsibility above and beyond playcalling, and because of his defense of the indefensible I would say Zorn needs to go.

There is no defense for having ARE return punts. He also returned them for Cowher and Joe Gibbs. He did alright for Cowher, but not for Gibbs, and he never stopped it even though we wondered why. I expect Zorn to be the one to put an end to it. Why it has taken this long I don't know but Gibbs kept him there throughout his second stint as HC as far as I can remember and he wasn't much better then. Zorn has said repeatedly it would take 2 years for the receivers to become efficient in this system as well as the QB. Trent Dilfer has commented on how complex this system is when in full force and other QB's familiar in this offense put 2-3 years as the timeline for becoming efficient in it. Could it be that as some players have said, the game is slowing down for them and they're starting to get it? I often think this staff is too cautious myself but someone like DT who acts like all he needed was the chance, couldn't even run the correct route half the time. I'm glad to see he's coming on but I find it hard to blame Zorn for him taking this long to do so. Even his own father said it takes DT 2 years to understand what to do and predicted this year he would come out strong. Davis seemed to have a case of the fumbles earlier this year, glad to see he's worked harder on holding on to the ball and put in extra time on his blocking. I guess he was just waiting to start to improve? Zorn has made mistakes but I'm not sure changing coaches is the answer at this point. As the HC he has to shoulder some blame, but not all of it. We're having growing pains but as of late, at least it appears we're growing. We're showing signs of what he said we would.

There is no defense for having ARE return punts. He also returned them for Cowher and Joe Gibbs. He did alright for Cowher, but not for Gibbs, and he never stopped it even though we wondered why. I expect Zorn to be the one to put an end to it. Why it has taken this long I don't know but Gibbs kept him there throughout his second stint as HC as far as I can remember and he wasn't much better then. Zorn has said repeatedly it would take 2 years for the receivers to become efficient in this system as well as the QB. Trent Dilfer has commented on how complex this system is when in full force and other QB's familiar in this offense put 2-3 years as the timeline for becoming efficient in it. Could it be that as some players have said, the game is slowing down for them and they're starting to get it? I often think this staff is too cautious myself but someone like DT who acts like all he needed was the chance, couldn't even run the correct route half the time. I'm glad to see he's coming on but I find it hard to blame Zorn for him taking this long to do so. Even his own father said it takes DT 2 years to understand what to do and predicted this year he would come out strong. Davis seemed to have a case of the fumbles earlier this year, glad to see he's worked harder on holding on to the ball and put in extra time on his blocking. I guess he was just waiting to start to improve?

I don't know where the interview is, but Zorn said that they had been wanting to get FD involved but he wasn't showing enough, but once Cooley went down and he was forced in, FD stepped up. But the way Zorn said it made it sound like it was FDs fault. I am saying by looking at the repeated decision by Zorn to hold off on putting a young player in, FD knew he wasn't going to get the chance regardless. Look, Cooley and JC had a great timing, so back off their practice a little and put FD in to force him to prepare. That's a coach's job, maybe not the HC, but again, if the coaches and players know that the younger guys aren't getting in even if a player takes all the practices off, then why are they going to try to get in. It was the atmosphere Zorn thrived in, where the senior class was gonna get everything, and the freshman had to wait, regardless of how they practiced.

and also just realized this is way :offtopic: sorry guys.

When the Browns talk to Holmgren it's "The Browns are taking decisive action now to make fundamental changes to the organization" When the Redskins talk to Shanahan it's "Dan Snyder has no patience, he's always meddling"

Smack, I would actually enjoy the privledge of being able to ask Mr. Snyder what he considers his credentials to be that favors him being so heavily involved in the day to day operation of the team.

I know it's his team and he can do what he wants, but he does not have a football resume, his success is rooted elsewhere. He's a ten year owner now, and I'm convinced that had he had some history where professional sports are concerned, the team would not have been and continue to be a revolving door.

He consistently maintains the fact he want's to win and I really believe he does. What's so difficult for him to take a step back, hire the people who know how to do what he's "trying" to do and evaluate it's success or failure? I would think even he would look at his body of work since becoming owner and say to himself this is not working, and ask himself what can I do to make it better as oposed to constantly dismissing personnel when the team fails to win on a timeline.

Smack, I would actually enjoy the privledge of being able to ask Mr. Snyder what he considers his credentials to be that favors him being so heavily involved in the day to day operation of the team.

I know it's his team and he can do what he wants, but he does not have a football resume, his success is rooted elsewhere. He's a ten year owner now, and I'm convinced that had he had some history where professional sports are concerned, the team would not have been and continue to be a revolving door.

He consistently maintains the fact he want's to win and I really believe he does. What's so difficult for him to take a step back, hire the people who know how to do what he's "trying" to do and evaluate it's success or failure? I would think even he would look at his body of work since becoming owner and say to himself this is not working, and ask himself what can I do to make it better as oposed to constantly dismissing personnel when the team fails to win on a timeline.

I'm pretty sure he'd give you the answer you gave yourself. He's been an owner for the past 10 years, spending each and every day involved in football operations. He'd say he understands the NFL and how it works and he has a vision on how to build a winner. Like it or not, he's got a decade of experience with players, coaches, front office, the salary cap, league personnel, etc. He has 'credentials' on paper. Now the reality is that the results have been mediocre. 2 playoff appearances, 1 playoff win is not getting it done. He will admit he's made mistakes and strongly state his desire to win (which I believe) but will also remain committed to doing it his way.

At the end of the conversation you'd probably wish you hadn't had it because you'd be more frustrated than you were before!

Like Bruce Allen

He would be perfect!