Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

If Snyder is smart he'll make sure Vinny is out of the public eye altogether, and behind the scenes he needs to be completely out of the picture when it comes to personnel decisions. Otherwise it's mission = fail and there will always be the perception, real or not, that Vinny is still involved.

Yeah, taking Thomas, Kelly and Davis when we only needed 1 WR was a kick in the nuts. He could have taken Thomas and 2 linemen (Marko in the later rounds was a steal). WRs can be found at every turn. Look at Chris Chambers. He's signed by the Chefs and suits up a few days later and has 70 yards and 2 TDs.

Actually looking back the only lineman that would have been worth one of our second round picks was Chilo Rachel and he was selected near the top of the second. However had we drafted Calias Campbell we wouldn't have needed to ship a second round pick for Jason Taylor, and we wouldn't had to use a 3rd round pick on Jeremy Jarmon. I still would have taken Orakpo over Oher though. We could then have used a 2009 second round pick to select an offensive lineman and that 2010 3rd round pick could have been used on another interior guy.

Going back to 2008 though I think that Jeremy Zutah was the only other guy who was worthy of a 2nd round pick.

I think some of the folks that have better access to information than your average fan (i.e. Smootsmack) have said that it has been pretty much Vinny's call on a lot of things, except for salary negotiation. While I do think that Vinny has made some pretty good draft picks (i.e. Orakpo, Horton, Mitchell, etc., etc.) he has completely overlooked the the offensive line. I mean he has built the defensive line (Orakpo, Jarmon, AH), but he should've had a similar approach to the o-line.

I never liked that all 3 2nd rounders in 08 were pass catchers, but I did understand Vinny's explanation. He didn't like the o linemen that were available after they'd traded down (ironic that Atl. traded up w/us to get a LT). What I really didn't like was that in the late rounds there were no O linemen selected the last 2 years.

Still, Vinny had an approach for the o line, it relied on Dock and signing Ray Willis. Only one of those happened. By the way his drafts have gone it looks as if he tries to draft by position in blocks, e.g. 2 wrs, 2 LBs. Maybe it was (is) in his 3 year plan to address the o line in this year's draft.

I'm not so much for getting rid of vinny because of his draft picks (though there's plenty to not like there) as much as I am for starting on a clean slate w/a new gm & structure to let him work.

Bottom line is Vinny did not address our DL line a few years ago and did this year by drafting Orakpo and getting Jeremy Jarmon. He didn't address the OL line this year and provided rejects and FA as backups, Vinny seems to be running behind on his moves and not anticipating ahead. Vinny gots to go!!!

Bottom line is Vinny did not address our DL line a few years ago and did this year by drafting Orakpo and getting Jeremy Jarmon. He didn't address the OL line this year and provided rejects and FA as backups, Vinny seems to be running behind on his moves and not anticipating ahead. Vinny gots to go!!!Vinny is a symptom of the problem, but he's also about two ranks higher up the football operations food chain than he'd be if he were in a successful organization.

Vinny is a lot more knowledgeable than people give him credit for, but the Steelers and Colts have five or six Vinny Cerrato's, and it's likely that none of them are quite as much of a prick.

^^ I agree. I think Vinny has done some things fine, but that he is in over his head.

Vinny is a symptom of the problem, but he's also about two ranks higher up the football operations food chain than he'd be if he were in a successful organization.

Vinny is a lot more knowledgeable than people give him credit for, but the Steelers and Colts have five or six Vinny Cerrato's, and it's likely that none of them are quite as much of a prick.

Well said and I think all your points are correct. I think it's almost completely irrelevant what happens to Vinny. The only reason Vinny is here is because Snyder has wanted him here. It's allowed Snyder to be at least if not more involved than owners like Davis and Jones. If Snyder wishes to play the same game he simply brings in another "Vinny" and makes up a fancy title...anything to woo the fans. Until I see/hear specific evidence to believe Snyder is fundamentally changing his ownership philosophy (firing Vinny doesn't qualify) I think it's naive to assume otherwise...

...personally I think the FO only becomes more of a mess in the near future. Nothing about Snyder says he's gonna let go and turn this thing over to a professional. Vinny will stay. A new guy or new group will come in, essentially as a distraction from Snyder doing whatever behind the scenes. It's all blah blah blah out of Redskins park until the day Snyder says "I'm hiring the best GM available to run the Redskins" or something similar.

NOT to come across as a Vinny apologist but I believe, as I have said before, that he had a 3 year plan. There were 3 glaring holes on the team he inherited from Gibbs, WR, DL, OL. Year One, address the WR issue. It was a decent year for 'good' receivers in '08 as highlighted by no 1st round WR picks, but a plethora in the 2nd round. Of those 2nd round WR, Donnie Avery, Eddie Royal, Desean Jackson have all paid dividends. James Hardy, Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Limas Sweed and Mario Manningham did not. More specific to our needs, we needed a big WR. Well, every big WR has been a flop while clones of what we already have, small & fast WR, have been successful.

DL was the next biggest need. Year Two, he addressed that with 3 players, Haynesworth, Orakpo (although they are playing him at LB) and Jarmon. I feel good about those 3 players, no complaints.

IF VC were allowed to keep his job, I'd expect nearly a full draft to be focused on the OL. Coming into the season, even if healthy, he had to know it was curtains for Thomas, Rabach and maybe Samuels. I'd bet he was planning to go heavy on OL in April '10.

Now, just because I think he had a plan, it doesn't mean it was a GOOD plan. It was horribly flawed, anticipating no injuries and immediate dividends from your draft picks, a terrible strategy. Also, if Chad Rinehart had turned into Dockery (also a 3rd round pick) I think we'd be much less critical about the overall state of the OL.

He had a bad plan and seemed to execute it poorly by picking bad players. Hopefully he won't be around to see the plan through.

NOT to come across as a Vinny apologist but I believe, as I have said before, that he had a 3 year plan. There were 3 glaring holes on the team he inherited from Gibbs, WR, DL, OL. Year One, address the WR issue. It was a decent year for 'good' receivers in '08 as highlighted by no 1st round WR picks, but a plethora in the 2nd round. Of those 2nd round WR, Donnie Avery, Eddie Royal, Desean Jackson have all paid dividends. James Hardy, Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Limas Sweed and Mario Manningham did not. More specific to our needs, we needed a big WR. Well, every big WR has been a flop while clones of what we already have, small & fast WR, have been successful.

DL was the next biggest need. Year Two, he addressed that with 3 players, Haynesworth, Orakpo (although they are playing him at LB) and Jarmon. I feel good about those 3 players, no complaints.

IF VC were allowed to keep his job, I'd expect nearly a full draft to be focused on the OL. Coming into the season, even if healthy, he had to know it was curtains for Thomas, Rabach and maybe Samuels. I'd bet he was planning to go heavy on OL in April '10.

Now, just because I think he had a plan, it doesn't mean it was a GOOD plan. It was horribly flawed, anticipating no injuries and immediate dividends from your draft picks, a terrible strategy. Also, if Chad Rinehart had turned into Dockery (also a 3rd round pick) I think we'd be much less critical about the overall state of the OL.

He had a bad plan and seemed to execute it poorly by picking bad players. Hopefully he won't be around to see the plan through.

I think you are right, and I will add that he counted too much on Jansen and Samuels. I think he expected they would anchor the line with some ability. Imagine if those three 2nd round picks had been OL, and this year we were going in looking for the qb/wr's. I think we would have been a completely different team, and maybe both Zorn and Vinny would be safe. BUT, he didn't and that responsibility lies squarely on VC's shoulders.

I think you are right, and I will add that he counted too much on Jansen and Samuels. I think he expected they would anchor the line with some ability. Imagine if those three 2nd round picks had been OL, and this year we were going in looking for the qb/wr's. I think we would have been a completely different team, and maybe both Zorn and Vinny would be safe. BUT, he didn't and that responsibility lies squarely on VC's shoulders.

We could have had Sam Baker with that first rounder, and possible have a line with Baker at LT and Oher at RT this year.