Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update

That's debatable. It's not MUCH better off.

Not debatable if you ask me. This season is a disaster and the entire org. is in disarray.

Can someone explain to me the roles of a Team President then if they have nothing to do with player acquisition? I like Gibbs as a person and a motivator, but he's no longer a football person. His offense while he was in the league was one of the worst -- and the only reason we stayed competitive was because of Greg Williams and his attacking dominant defense. His player acquisitions were built for short term winning (which we didn't do), undersized receivers, and no thought to the future. Why have we gone downhill since he left? I think that's pretty easy. Offensive line age/injuries, Clinton Portis getting destroyed from 6000 carries per season, and a change on the defensive side.

I'm not trying to kill Gibbs. While I don't agree with a lot of his philosophies and stances in life, I certainly respect them and he's done nothing but good for mankind. He's an amazing leader with an uncanny gift to lead. I just don't think football is a place for him anymore. After he quit the skins, it looks like he was 10 years younger after about two months. Football requires a dedication that consumes all of an individuals time and energy, he doesn't need that anymore -- I'm worried it would kill him, to be completely honest.

Keep racing. Enjoy your family. Hang out on that lake in South Carolina, and answer Danny's calls when he needs some real advice. Besides that, enjoy 'retirement.'

To whoever said if you can build a great racing team you can build a great football team. Come on. The difficulty of assembling an NFL team vs. assembling a NASCAR team isn't even comparable. His position in NASCAR is basically spend a lot of money, get a few amazing engineers, and hope for a lot of luck on race day. It's all about having the best equipment out there, something a salary cap and contracts greatly limit in the NFL.

That's debatable. It's not MUCH better off.

When he left, the organization from top to bottom had come together as a team and was coming off a playoff run after the death of ST. To a man, the players, coaches and FO pointed to Gibbs as the influence that brought the team through and gave them the fire to continue.

The more I see of Zorn the coach, I am convinced that the 6-2 start to the 2008 season was a direct result of Gibbs influence the prior year. But for Gibbs, the 6-2 start would not have occurred. Further, (and I know this is the "what if" game), had Gibbs returned in 2008, the team would have found a way into the playoffs again.

Without Gibbs to exert some influence over DS, Cerrato and his toxic attitude became the main character of the organization. This was exhibited almost from day one when Vinny's people intimated that G.Williams bad mouthed Gibbs. That set the tone for the next two years.

The only thing Gibbs did not do that he should have done is said "Dan, Vinny's attitude and relationship with everyone else in football sucks. He cannot be in a position of control within this organization if it is to succeed."

To assert that Gibbs didn't raise the team out of the Spurrier Chaos or that it didn't immediately sink back into the Cerrato Toxic Dump without him, is IMHO not debatable.

When he left, the organization from top to bottom had come together as a team and was coming off a playoff run after the death of ST. To a man, the players, coaches and FO pointed to Gibbs as the influence that brought the team through and gave them the fire to continue.

The more I see of Zorn the coach, I am convinced that the 6-2 start to the 2008 season was a direct result of Gibbs influence the prior year. But for Gibbs, the 6-2 start would not have occurred. Further, (and I know this is the "what if" game), had Gibbs returned in 2008, the team would have found a way into the playoffs again.

Without Gibbs to exert some influence over DS, Cerrato and his toxic attitude became the main character of the organization. This was exhibited almost from day one when Vinny's people intimated that G.Williams bad mouthed Gibbs. That set the tone for the next two years.

The only thing Gibbs did not do that he should have done is said "Dan, Vinny's attitude and relationship with everyone else in football sucks. He cannot be in a position of control within this organization if it is to succeed."

To assert that Gibbs didn't raise the team out of the Spurrier Chaos or that it didn't immediately sink back into the Cerrato Toxic Dump without him, is IMHO not debatable.

Best sentence in this thread.

We don't need Gibb's in any fashion! When Gibbs was here, and running things the second time, who did he bring in outside of Sean Taylor who is gone, thats panned out, Jason Campbell, Carlos Rogers, ARE, Joe Bugel, (which someone needs to tell him, that that 1980 Scheme isn't working in the year 20 09, if he was here, we wouldnt have D-Hall, which has worked out great, he is getting votes for the Pro Bowl, we wouldn't have Haynesworth, which under the guidence of a great defense Coordinator, wow. Mike Sellers, who is a great special teams player, but when it come to being a fullback, he is not selling out that big body, he is a over-rated, watch run against the Chief's, he blocking up field and falls down to a DB, and Portis gets tackled, result....FG, we need to clean house of all of Joe Gibbs aquisitions, bring in a whole new staff, from GM, HC, OC, DC, STC, take the best of what we got, build a line first on offense, signed Campbell to a one year deal, Draft anyone except "Bradford" in two years our offense should catch up with the Defense, because its said we are not a top 10 team with the talent we have, we on our way to a 4-12 season, and we wont even be a top 5 draft team, which says how said we are as team, cause those other teams, dont have any talent. Bottom line. Pass on any Gibbs help. Start fresh

When he left, the organization from top to bottom had come together as a team and was coming off a playoff run after the death of ST. To a man, the players, coaches and FO pointed to Gibbs as the influence that brought the team through and gave them the fire to continue.

The more I see of Zorn the coach, I am convinced that the 6-2 start to the 2008 season was a direct result of Gibbs influence the prior year. But for Gibbs, the 6-2 start would not have occurred. Further, (and I know this is the "what if" game), had Gibbs returned in 2008, the team would have found a way into the playoffs again.

Without Gibbs to exert some influence over DS, Cerrato and his toxic attitude became the main character of the organization. This was exhibited almost from day one when Vinny's people intimated that G.Williams bad mouthed Gibbs. That set the tone for the next two years.

The only thing Gibbs did not do that he should have done is said "Dan, Vinny's attitude and relationship with everyone else in football sucks. He cannot be in a position of control within this organization if it is to succeed."

To assert that Gibbs didn't raise the team out of the Spurrier Chaos or that it didn't immediately sink back into the Cerrato Toxic Dump without him, is IMHO not debatable.

Well said!! Many people bash Gibbs about bad trading picks and making bad moves during Gibbs II. How the hell do we know that it wasn't Danny or Vinny that wanted this moves made and Joe just appeased them? We don't know what went on behind the scenes, we just assume.

Well said!! Many people bash Gibbs about bad trading picks and making bad moves during Gibbs II. How the hell do we know that it wasn't Danny or Vinny that wanted this moves made and Joe just appeased them? We don't know what went on behind the scenes, we just assume.

Well, that's kinda the point. If Gibbs was there and we still aquired mediocre talent, regardless of who was responsible, the fact remains Joe Gibbs was a part of this organization at that time. Yes, we were better. But anyone watching the Skins during his final season, could tell we were running on fumes.

My fundamental question is what has changed since Gibbs has left? Did he suddenly gain some magic touch to get people to come here that he didn't possess the second time around. Personally, I love Joe Gibbs as much as the next guy. And I know you guys are tired of hearing me beat this dead horse whenever a Joe Gibbs thread crops up. I just don't buy the notion that Danny only listens to Gibbs and he's the key to bringing in the "right" people. Somthing just ain't right about that.

We need to move on and start fresh. For the record, I don't want Dan Snyder to sell the team. We're about to possibly enter an un-capped era. So I want an owner as financially committed to success and winning as Synder seems to be. It's not his motive that anyone questions, it's his methods.

Gibbs has moved on, let everybody here do so as well.

We've seen this happen TWICE also.

Yes! I point my finger JG1 for leaving us high an dry with aged players. I can't blame JG2 for the second time. Although he left abruptly he left us with GW and a half decent scheme. Everyone kept clammering that they needed a better QB, better WR's, and a pass rush. I am to blame as well. I think now had we beefed up the O-line even Al Saunders might have been able to get his system to work.

Whats sad is we have no passing game and now no running game to go along with a top notch defense. We complained about AS not taking shots down field with his offensive scheme, then go out to pick up a "high scoring WCO," and in reality we regressed. I almost, almost welcome AS's offensive scheme more these days.

Letting GW go was a mistake...really could he have been any more a loser then things are now? Who really needs to go is Vinny !!!! He killed the 49ers and he is doing the same here!