CB option to look at ?

OK, let me add some actual FACTS to the constant, immature, trash talk about someone's idea...

* Jason David is 27 YEARS OLD.
* Tryon is 25 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
* Westbrook is 24 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
...by the way, the young Carlos Rogers is 28. We are not talking about an OLD, lost a step guy like Ty Law (35 yrs old), McAlister (32 yrs old), or Mike McKenzie (33 yrs old).

* Jason David LED THE SAINTS IN INTERCEPTIONS LAST YEAR WITH 5 as their #1 corner, covering #1 WR! (How many did Rogers/Springs have?) ... With us, he'd work the #3 or #4 receiver.
* He has 16 career interceptions in 5 seasons. (Rogers has 6 in 4 seasons, Tryon - ZERO, Smoot 21 in 8 seasons, Westbrook - ZERO)

I mean, sure he was way overrated when signed away from Colts. Saints paid him #1 money and played him as #1 corner, which he is not... and I am not a FAN of this guy...

... but to have guy after guy trash my thread as crazy because this guy is definitely not an upgrade to Smoot (30 yrs old), Tryon, Westbrook, or Barnes?? FYI, Calling someone an idiot doesn't automatically mean that you are the smartest person in the conversation... it usually means the opposite because you don't have an intelligent, fact-filled rebuttal prepared.

And let me finish by saying.. overreact? Let these guys develop? Westbrook has been on practice squad for 2 years... Tryon has been here for 2 offseasons and regular season & was toasted regularly by a guy who the Skins let walk after a workout this offseason at WR (K Washington). Barnes... ok, sure...

... but I'm pretty sure we are going to want a PROVEN, solid #3 or #4? right?? Oh wait... I know the answer there... I'm overreacting.

Look, I'm not saying "let's go throw 41.8 million at the guy, he's the best!" ... I'm saying... maybe it's an OPTION (read the title) to look at. I wanted people's thoughts... but I was hoping for better thought out responses...Correction on the designation: Randall Gay was the Saints' no. 1 corner last year. He took over as the No. 1 corner when Mike McKenzie was hurt. So David, who came into last year as the Saints nickleback, was forced into the starting lineup when McKenzie was injured AND after their second round pick, Tracy Porter, tore out his knee. David started 6 games at the end of the season when the Saints had literally no one else to put out there, even Leigh Torrence got two starts for them in weeks 16 and 17.

He was, predictably, terrible. But more significantly than that, offenses and quarterbacks KNOW that he's terrible (56 targets in only 14 games and 6 starts). Maybe the Ravens knew that Tryon was the weak link of our defense. Looked like it. Still, it's tough to say that we're not better off with the relative unknown compared to the proven failure.

The worst case scenario for a guy like Tryon is that he becomes what David currently is: an easy completion who offers the occasional INT off the poorly thrown ball and nothing else. In two years, that's exactly what Tryon might be in this league. If we fail to develop him, it could happen.

At age 27, David isn't old, but he's as good as he's going to get at the position. He might not be in decline for 3-4 years, but when you are Jason David, you aren't exactly going to be in the league long enough to reach that point.

His NFL career is probably over, but hey, Morlon Greenwood got signed yesterday instead of Derrick Brooks, so who knows.

Justin Tryon, a native Californian out of the Pac-10, was the 124th overall pick in 2008.
Jason David, a native Californian out of the Pac-10, was the 125th overall pick in 2004.


Fun stuff. Here's the closest comparables to Jason David's career, according to PFR:

Terry Fair, Jack Morris, Clarence Chapman, Kelly Herndon, Bryant Salter, Brodney Pool, Al Campana, Madieu Williams, Ifeanyi Ohalete, Josh Bullocks

OK, let me add some actual FACTS to the constant, immature, trash talk about someone's idea...

* Jason David is 27 YEARS OLD.
* Tryon is 25 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
* Westbrook is 24 and COMPLETELY UNPROVEN.
...by the way, the young Carlos Rogers is 28. We are not talking about an OLD, lost a step guy like Ty Law (35 yrs old), McAlister (32 yrs old), or Mike McKenzie (33 yrs old).

* Jason David LED THE SAINTS IN INTERCEPTIONS LAST YEAR WITH 5 as their #1 corner, covering #1 WR! (How many did Rogers/Springs have?) ... With us, he'd work the #3 or #4 receiver.
* He has 16 career interceptions in 5 seasons. (Rogers has 6 in 4 seasons, Tryon - ZERO, Smoot 21 in 8 seasons, Westbrook - ZERO)

I mean, sure he was way overrated when signed away from Colts. Saints paid him #1 money and played him as #1 corner, which he is not... and I am not a FAN of this guy...

... but to have guy after guy trash my thread as crazy because this guy is definitely not an upgrade to Smoot (30 yrs old), Tryon, Westbrook, or Barnes?? FYI, Calling someone an idiot doesn't automatically mean that you are the smartest person in the conversation... it usually means the opposite because you don't have an intelligent, fact-filled rebuttal prepared.

And let me finish by saying.. overreact? Let these guys develop? Westbrook has been on practice squad for 2 years... Tryon has been here for 2 offseasons and regular season & was toasted regularly by a guy who the Skins let walk after a workout this offseason at WR (K Washington). Barnes... ok, sure...

... but I'm pretty sure we are going to want a PROVEN, solid #3 or #4? right?? Oh wait... I know the answer there... I'm overreacting.

Look, I'm not saying "let's go throw 41.8 million at the guy, he's the best!" ... I'm saying... maybe it's an OPTION (read the title) to look at. I wanted people's thoughts... but I was hoping for better thought out responses...

1. Sorry for calling the thread ironic but I actually confused you with hail_2_da_skins

2. If you had all these great facts why didn't you bring them up in the first post

3. I've got no problem with cutting Westbrook at this point and letting that experiment end but too early in my opinion to let Tryon and Barnes walk

4. Don't be fooled by the interceptions. He got burned repeatedly for big, big plays. As recently as this past weekend when he got burned on a couple of 50 yard pass plays by the Bengals

The Saints were #23 in pass D last year, the Skins were #7.

Not sure the Saints are the garbage heap we want to be picking from.

At 27 the guy has peaked and was just cut from a lousy secondary. We have 2 guys with potential. This guy is not gonna crack the top 3 guys we have, so why even bother? Even though the young guys got beat the FIRST preseason game, you got to allow them to grow. Now the O-Line on the other hand (you know these threads always go back to the O-Line) you could add some depth there in the second team by looking at some vets in free agency....

Way to come back on this thread Hail, good stats you provided.

I remember seeing David get picked on big time by Manning in the opener a couple years ago after the Saints had signed him, other than that I don't recall seeing him much. You have to admit that the timing of his cut makes him look pretty bad. If it were for cap reasons only, he would've been gone already.

As for those saying it's "too early to give up on Tryon & Barnes" we're all playing faux GM here. This might be the most meaningful thread we've had the last week or so. If there is a change made at CB before camp is out (and I see that as a good possibility) then this thread is worthwhile.

Plus, it might not be a matter of "giving up" on the young guys. They may decide to practice squad one of them & sign a vet to be the #4 corner. That wouldn't mean they're giving up on them, just that they think they're not ready.

I wish Tryon looked like he could play cb in the nfl, but he never has in preseason action. If he's not better after game 2, it might be best for them to cut him & sign a vet asap.
If we sign David by the end of camp, we'll all owe you an apology!

At 27 the guy has peaked and was just cut from a lousy secondary. We have 2 guys with potential. This guy is not gonna crack the top 3 guys we have, so why even bother? Even though the young guys got beat the FIRST preseason game, you got to allow them to grow. Now the O-Line on the other hand (you know these threads always go back to the O-Line) you could add some depth there in the second team by looking at some vets in free agency....

I think it's the other way around; backup CBs will get playing time even when the 2 starters are healthy. Backup O linemen will only get snaps w/the offense if someone is hurt.

Not saying we don't need depth on the o line, we've needed an infusion of youth for a few years now, but CB is a position which generally rookies & 2nd year guys can contribute immediately in. The team has essentially banked on Tryon & Barnes as the 4th & 5th cb, and both need to be able to play this year.

IMO, if Tryon doesn't look better by the 3rd preseason game, I don't see him ever becoming a dependable man to man cb.

Hey, I gotta say, I really appreciate the much better responses since my last post... these responses are why I check this site daily throughout the year since 2004. (I don't post much, but I LOVE reading the quality discussions on here)

I have a LOT more to say on THIS subject, but... I'll TRY to narrow it all down... lol

* We need a #3/#4 cornerback RIGHT NOW, FOR THE 2009 SEASON, not one we can "develop" while he KILLS us every week

* Our current 3/4 is Smoot/Tryon/Barnes mix?

* A guy who had the 3rd most INTs in the NFL LAST YEAR, with 5, isn't in their class?? ...Yet EVERYONE complains about our lack of turnovers...

* I am NOT in the J. David fan club, in fact, I don't think he's a good/great CB and am completely open to ANY CB who can come in and play the nickel... as a PROVEN OPTION over COMPLETELY UNPROVEN Tryon/Barnes & 30 yr old Smoot...

* It's so hilarious for people to act like Tryon's a rookie and only played one bad game and forget he was here ALL last year and got toasted ALL pre-season last year & wasn't evaluated as good enough to step foot on the field by OUR defensive coordinator for the entire 2008 season... it's not one game, it's a year-and-a-half body of work.

* In the end, An23dy is the most right... I don't see the team keeping more than 5 CBs nor do I see them cutting Tryon or Barnes because of their age and picks used. I don't see Smoot being cut due to his locker room influence, so I guess it's a all moot point anyway... (good job of wasting your time Hail... lol)

And hey... I hope the Tryon Kool-Aid drinkers prove me wrong!! Really!! That'd be GREAT news for us!! I just don't see any "magic fairy godcorners" tapping him on the head and making him a quality starter in the NFL.

... yeah, that's why I don't post much... like Dave Matthews says "So much to Say, So Much to Say" hahaha ... HTTR!

Well we're apparently not looking to make a roster move at corner, so the question is not who is going to make the team. It's who on the team should be playing in critical situations.

Right now, that probably shouldn't be Tryon. In two weeks, we might think differently.

Justin Tryon actually played quite a bit on defense last year (not just on special teams). He was in a lot of dime (and a few nickel packages)