Kevin and Pat Williams, guilty or not?

FRPLG -- I guarantee you this. You don't have a clue what type of chemicals you're ingesting when you eat a steak. There's a lot more than just meat in there. All sorts of growth hormones, etc. Do you know what they are? Doubt it. It's not on the packaging.

FRPLG I think your taking this a bit far. These guys like most other people today do a highly specialized job. They play football at a high level, in doing that they learn a few things about nutrition- that doesn't mean they should be held to the standard of a doctor. They learn about mental toughness and visualizing an outcome- this doesn't mean they are psychics. Even your analogy isn't accurate, it is not akin to not "noticing" the speed limit changed it would be if there were no speed limit posted on the entire stretch of highway. Rules and Laws in any fair society must be posted for all to see. Otherwise we all become paranoid and or litigious, that in my opinion is not the message the NFL should be sending here. Accepting personal responsibility is one very human thing expecting perfection is not.

The article says...The players contested that they took StarCaps, a weight-loss supplement, and that the label didn't say it contained bumetanide. This is true. The NFL admitted it knew StarCaps contained the diuretic, which, in turn, triggered a lawsuit from the Williams boys (no relation). The NFL should have informed the players in the league not to take this substance, according to the two Williamses and their attorney.

I disagree, I think they should be held responsible. I understand that they arent "psychics" or "doctors", but you should still have a clear understanding what you are taking when your job is on the line. These guys make a ton of money, and have immediate access to the best doctors and/or trainers that the clubs can provide. IMO....ignorance doesnt discount their violation of the rules, do your homework....or serve your time.

But....it is kinda sad that the league didnt put out the info beforehand.

The NFL won't allow anything to happen that could jeopardize Favre's success upon his arrival to the Vikings in a couple of weeks...that's my conspiracy theory for the day

The NFL won't allow anything to happen that could jeopardize Favre's success upon his arrival to the Vikings in a couple of weeks...that's my conspiracy theory for the day

Conspiracy theory or truth? Or just the tip of the iceberg? Or is it possible that a certain Mr. Daniel Snyder owns the company that makes StarCaps? Is it possible by sabotaging the situation in Minnesota, Mr. Favre would be more inclined to sign with the Redskins and give Snyder the new big-name QB he seeks? Mike Florio or whatever his name is ain't got s**t on me!

FRPLG, if you are looking for a dietary supplement that doesn't have any banned substances within it, you're going to look at the nutrition facts page on that supplement. If that nutrition facts page does not contain a banned substance, then you are willing to take it, and therefore, trust the label.

The Williams' did their research on the supplement, on the banned drug was not present, only to find out later that it was. It is not their fault.

They ingested it themselves. Whether they knew or not doesn't take away the fact that they ingested on their own volition. To me ignorance isn't an excuse. I don't have a bad opinion of them but at the end of the day they took a banned substance. They should suffer the consequences. Now a lot of my feelings are mitigated by the fact that the league knew about this particular supplement and didn't tell players. To me, in that case because they failed to communicate properly, it totslly negates the players guilt. I'd just drop this if I were the league. But for me, in the future, if players take a banned substance they should reap the consequences regardless of intent or knowledge.

FRPLG -- I guarantee you this. You don't have a clue what type of chemicals you're ingesting when you eat a steak. There's a lot more than just meat in there. All sorts of growth hormones, etc. Do you know what they are? Doubt it. It's not on the packaging.

So what?

Both sides of this argument have merit. I personally don't care either way, but I would have to lean towards guilty cause the test is cut and dry. It shouldn't matter where, or how a banned substance got in your system, it only matters that it did. Is it an unfortunate circumstance? Absolutely. (assuming you believe the story anyway)
The argument that makes me laugh is that "they have to make weight, so they took something to help them lose weight". OK...I get you need to lose weight. You are an athlete, act like one. Don't go nuts during the offseason and get way out of shape just to rely on a pill to get bring you back. The label should DEFINITELY say what's in it, no question, but that's a future legal action for the Williams'. That should be of no concern to the NFL. Horrible scenario, that's for sure.

-- I guarantee you this. You don't have a clue what type of chemicals you're ingesting when you eat a steak. There's a lot more than just meat in there. All sorts of growth hormones, etc. Do you know what they are? Doubt it. It's not on the packaging.

Valid argument, however, we don't NEED to take weight pills to survive, we do need to eat to live though. What the cow eats, or is fed before it is slaughtered is diffferent than actually adding something foreign to a pill. I do agree it needs to be on the packaging...100% agree...but this is also why there are regular steaks and organic steaks. The organic steaks are guarenteed to be free of those things. Don't want hormones, eat organic. Pretty simple.

jsarno, not really. The if you read the FDA guidelines there are three different stages of 'organic.'

* 100 percent organic. Products that are completely organic or made of all organic ingredients.
* Organic. Products that are at least 95 percent organic.
* Made with organic ingredients. These are products that contain at least 70 percent organic ingredients. The organic seal can't be used on these packages.

Anyhow, they took the pills during the middle of the season. You get beat up, you can't really work out as much as you'd like to keep trim, and you don't want to pay the 2grand a day or whatever the overweight fine happens to be for the team. I would be completely on the side of those that say guilty had they not TRIED to contact the NFL to see if the substance was acceptable. That's the part that really bothers me.

I would be completely on the side of those that say guilty had they not TRIED to contact the NFL to see if the substance was acceptable. That's the part that really bothers me.Yeah...in this case I say they're getting the shaft. I just think if any guilt can be shifted off of players and on to the league then they should get a pass. To me the NFL is resposnible for communicating the dangers of a supplement lie this if they have the info. How hard is it for them to have a damn website that they can update 24/7?