Learning Under Vets? Coaching Up?

Just a question that I'm finally going to bring up...

Whenever a former awesome vet (ex. Brooks) is released I always read about how someone needs to pick him up and he can mentor the younger players. I TOTALLY understand that there are veteran tips that true students of the game can pass on, but am I being a dick in saying that overall this might make up 1% of the young players overall experience?

I just think that a lot of people overvalue having veteran players on a team to "tutor" the young ones. I feel like if they were great coaches we'd have already asked them to coach if their playing days are behind them.

I feel the same way about coaching up. A lot of us had the hope (including myself) that by reuniting players like Erasmus James with former coaches that all of a sudden a light would be flicked on. Just a little rant...

Well, there's something to be said for veteran leadership. I know I heard on a broadcast last year that Roy Williams was looking for veteran help when he got to Detroit because he didn't know how to best prepare for opponents. It's much more difficult to succeed in the NFL, ask Devin Thomas, and it takes a lot more than just relying on physical ability. In college, a lot of times, a guy is a man among boys and he can dominate just by showing up against say 70% of his competition. In the NFL, most guys can't just show up and be great, they need another player (preferably a great one) to teach them how to prepare for games.

That's my opinion.

Well, there's something to be said for veteran leadership. I know I heard on a broadcast last year that Roy Williams was looking for veteran help when he got to Detroit because he didn't know how to best prepare for opponents. It's much more difficult to succeed in the NFL, ask Devin Thomas, and it takes a lot more than just relying on physical ability. In college, a lot of times, a guy is a man among boys and he can dominate just by showing up against say 70% of his competition. In the NFL, most guys can't just show up and be great, they need another player (preferably a great one) to teach them how to prepare for games.

That's my opinion.

That said, it does beg the question: What exactly is the position coach doing that he's not preparing these guys?

Yeah I do think people overvalue the impact of "mentoring". A lot of vets have no use for showing the younger guys the ropes so they can basically take their jobs.

Good players are typically the way they are because they are self-motivated, and not led around on a leash like a lost puppy.

Sure you need veteran leadership on your team and I'm not underestimating the importance of that. But the idea that all veterans want to mentor the younger guys and is worth a roster spot because of that does get overplayed with the fans.

Kinda like the idea that any free agent is available for the vet min.

That said, it does beg the question: What exactly is the position coach doing that he's not preparing these guys?

Exactly.

As far as veteran leadership for the locker room, that is something most definitely needed. I think that RW situation was a testament to crappy coaching up in Detroit. :frusty:

IMO the biggest impact vets can have on the younger guys is if they've been in the system for a long time they can be a big help in position meetings. The other thing vets can do, is teach young guys to watch film correctly. But I also feel like every team already has a few of those guys.

Yeah I do think people overvalue the impact of "mentoring". A lot of vets have no use for showing the younger guys the ropes so they can basically take their jobs.

Good players are typically the way they are because they are self-motivated, and not led around on a leash like a lost puppy.

Sure you need veteran leadership on your team and I'm not underestimating the importance of that. But the idea that all veterans want to mentor the younger guys and is worth a roster spot because of that does get overplayed with the fans.

Kinda like the idea that any free agent is available for the vet min.

I know it's a different sport, but in the NBA Playoffs I kept hearing about how Rashard Lewis came to the NBA right out of high school, fell to the 2nd round and was on the road to a short NBA career when Ray Allen showed up in Seattle and basically saved his career. They talked about how he found a whole new way to prepare and became a far better shooter thanks to Ray Allen, so there is something to be said for veteran leadership.

Exactly.

As far as veteran leadership for the locker room, that is something most definitely needed. I think that RW situation was a testament to crappy coaching up in Detroit. :frusty:

I think, though, that it may be a function of coaches just participating in the "scheduled" activities unless a guy asks him to stay after and help him. (All me guessing) I'm of the opinion that it takes a lot more than team meetings and practices to get a guy ready to contribute in the NFL. You need to be out there after hours, working your tail off to be great and I guess that may be something that isn't stressed by position coaches? :confused-

I think, though, that it may be a function of coaches just participating in the "scheduled" activities unless a guy asks him to stay after and help him. (All me guessing) I'm of the opinion that it takes a lot more than team meetings and practices to get a guy ready to contribute in the NFL. You need to be out there after hours, working your tail off to be great and I guess that may be something that isn't stressed by position coaches? :confused-

I'd find it hard to believe there is a coach in the NFL that doesn't stress those types of things. At some point though the responsibility falls to the player to take the reins and do what he needs to do. Watching film, extra work in the weight room, whatever. The coaches can't hold the players' hands 24/7.

I think where learning under veterans comes into play it's not so much about them teaching rookies or younger players plays and techniques, it's more so teaching them what it takes to be successful in the league. Randle-El, Santonio Holmes, etc. talk a lot about how hard Hines Ward works and see that showed them what it takes to be a success.

Coming in as a rookie with an open mind and a willingness to learn is the biggest thing, but if you can model yourself-from a work ethic standpoint-after an established vet, that's where you can see the impact.

Another example is the Santana Moss/Malcolm Kelly situation. Kelly has said in many interviews how Moss has helped him deal with his lost rookie season because Moss essentially had the same thing. Moss missed most of his rookie season with a knee injury, press and fans wrote him off as a bust, he had to shake it off and emerge as a player to be reckoned with. Kelly now has a model to follow in his own locker room. Imagine if it was a T.O. or Chad Ochocinco? They wouldn't have that type of experience to share so Kelly may still have those questions and doubts that Moss helped him overcome.