Obama Care

Government loves to over look this and would love for the people to forget it....

Declaration of Independence (http://www.constitution.org/usdeclar.htm)

Perhaps real change is needed, so forget about the Republicans coming back strong. We need to look forward to this man..... :)

Ross Perot on the Issues (http://www.ontheissues.org/Ross_Perot.htm)

Ross Perot. LOL. ;)

Good for the Dems and supporters. Bad for the GOPers and supporters!

Based on the $ 750 fine/tax most single, healthy people that aren't worried about coverage will pay the $ 750 rather than the $ 1,400 + /yr. they would pay for insurance. So the scenario will be probably be worse regarding premium increases.

Supposing you SS33 are a young healthy chap would you pay the $750 and skip getting coverage? For how long? What would you do if you got sick? Where do you think your $750 going?

There still will be. For a while at least. IMHO, as more and more coverages are mandated, however, private insurance will become to costly for all but the wealthy.

I hope I am wrong and I may well be. I am sure 12th and Saden have multiple links to disprove my cynical view. As I have said all along, I just don't think this law does enough to address the underlying flaws in the healthcare system which are stressing the cost for services. In fact, I believe it will do more to exacerbate them.

But I'm not really worried - insurance companies and healthcare providers have promised to cut 2 trillion in costs over the next 10 years. Add that to the promised 130 billion in deficit reduction from this law and we are in for some boom times people!!

I just try to be the voice of reason, I don't really come here to have heated debates or prove people wrong. I have a point of view like the next guy, but I also come here to learn and glean information from the rest of you. Even firstdown:)

I have scant criticisms of this bill and I'm a little leery of some of the numbers, but I also believe at the end of the day Republicans will regret not getting in on this. It won't be repealed and as we see hiccups along the way, and we will, new legislation will be enacted to improve upon the core bill.

Supposing you SS33 are a young healthy chap would you pay the $750 and skip getting coverage? For how long? What would you do if you got sick? Where do you think your $750 going?

Clearly, you pay the 750/year until such time as you need coverage. At which time, you buy just enough coverage to pay for whatever the problem is. Use of pre-existing conditions being prohibited (sec. 211), I wait until the last possible moment to purchase coverage. Why pay 1,400+ (more as time goes by) for a service I don't need?

As to where the $750 goes, why does that matter? If I don't use the health insurance, the 1,400 gets me no benefit and neither does the 750. If I have to piss away money, I'll piss away the least amount possible.

If you're implying that the 750 will be going to offset insurance costs, perhaps it will be used to offset some of the public option costs but it certainly won't affect private insurance. So, in many cases, before premiums for private insurance to significantly increase, private insurers will get many new insureds just as those insureds need expensive coverage. This will continue until premiums catch up with the mandatory services.

hmmm, I may have to rethink starting that insurance company.

I just try to be the voice of reason, I don't really come here to have heated debates or prove people wrong. I have a point of view like the next guy, but I also come here to learn and glean information from the rest of you. Even firstdown:)

I have scant criticisms of this bill and I'm a little leery of some of the numbers, but I also believe at the end of the day Republicans will regret not getting in on this. It won't be repealed and as we see hiccups along the way, and we will, new legislation will be enacted to improve upon the core bill.

With this I agree. It's here to stay and Republican obstructionism is, in the end, going to do them more harm than good. They had plenty of time to come up with and sell a viable alternative or even to say "attack costs first and here is the way to do it".

As to the numbers, obviously, I am more than a little leery. Again, I hope I am wrong, I hope this succeeds in delivering on its promises. I just seriously doubt it and, in 10 years, believe will be trying to figure out how to pay for it.

Clearly, you pay the 750/year until such time as you need coverage. At which time, you buy just enough coverage to pay for whatever the problem is. Use of pre-existing conditions being prohibited (sec. 211), I wait until the last possible moment to purchase coverage. Why pay 1,400+ (more as time goes by) for a service I don't need?

All these little tricks aren't some new revelation (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=eas&nid=t0:eas:2321) but that's not going to stop the mob from thinking itself clever. Tricksters should be weary of traps.

Far be it from me to give advice that contradicts a lawyer's advice but I would be remiss if didn't. I guess you haven't heard of a nice little section titled "Sec. 2702 Guaranteed Availability of Coverage. (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=eas&nid=t0:eas:975)" This section clearly establishes an enrollment period much like your employer's enrollment period and if you miss it without extraneous circumstance (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/usc_sec_26_00009801----000-.html) you are shit out of luck. That is to say you will be on your own in purchasing insurance with your pre-existing condition at a hefty "free-market" price.

If a healthy young person does as you suggest they would be out $750 annually without the benefits of coverage, and when they get sick and decide to get insurance they might as well offer a kidney as payment. The best coverage they will be able to get is through the high risk insurance pool (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=eas&nid=t0:eas:1808).

As to where the $750 goes, why does that matter? If I don't use the health insurance, the 1,400 gets me no benefit and neither does the 750. If I have to piss away money, I'll piss away the least amount possible.

If you're implying that the 750 will be going to offset insurance costs, perhaps it will be used to offset some of the public option costs but it certainly won't affect private insurance. So, in many cases, before premiums for private insurance to significantly increase, private insurers will get many new insureds just as those insureds need expensive coverage. This will continue until premiums catch up with the mandatory services.


It matters where that $750 goes, it matters very much. You see, the government isn't providing the insurance itself, it's merely providing the rule book for insurance companies to follow. That $750 will eventually end up going to some insurance company and it's coming from a poor sap they didn't provide any service to but is still paying into the system. Of course if said sap decides to use emergency services he will probably utilize that $750 he paid and then some.

There is no public option in this bill, only healthcare exchange where most insurance companies if not all will no doubt participate in. And of course participating in the exchange will impact the private insurance companies button dollar. Now if people and employers dump companies that aren't participating in the exchange in favor of those that are imagine they're doing it out of self-interest. The point is there's absolutely nothing preventing companies from participating in the exchange there's nothing wrong with purchasing coverage though the exchange.

hmmm, I may have to rethink starting that insurance company.

The health insurance industry is still a free market though it is regulated. Get in the game and if you strike it rich save the Redskins from Snyder.


p.s. Thank you to all you young healthy lads who plan on paying that $750 fine, and good luck, you're bloody well going to need it.

Health Care is so boring.... I am ready to start on Immigration. Let them keep suing, on to the next issue.

All these little tricks aren't some new revelation (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=eas&nid=t0:eas:2321) but that's not going to stop the mob from thinking itself clever. Tricksters should be weary of traps.

Far be it from me to give advice that contradicts a lawyer's advice but I would be remiss if didn't. I guess you haven't heard of a nice little section titled "Sec. 2702 Guaranteed Availability of Coverage. (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=eas&nid=t0:eas:975)" This section clearly establishes an enrollment period much like your employer's enrollment period and if you miss it without extraneous circumstance (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/usc_sec_26_00009801----000-.html) you are shit out of luck. That is to say you will be on your own in purchasing insurance with your pre-existing condition at a hefty "free-market" price.

If a healthy young person does as you suggest they would be out $750 annually without the benefits of coverage, and when they get sick and decide to get insurance they might as well offer a kidney as payment. The best coverage they will be able to get is through the high risk insurance pool (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text?version=eas&nid=t0:eas:1808).



It matters where that $750 goes, it matters very much. You see, the government isn't providing the insurance itself, it's merely providing the rule book for insurance companies to follow. That $750 will eventually end up going to some insurance company and it's coming from a poor sap they didn't provide any service to but is still paying into the system. Of course if said sap decides to use emergency services he will probably utilize that $750 he paid and then some.

There is no public option in this bill, only healthcare exchange where all most insurance companies if not all will no doubt participate in. And of course participating in the exchange will impact the private insurance companies button dollar. Now if people and employers dump companies that aren't participating in the exchange in favor of those that are imagine they're doing it out of self-interest. The point is there's absolutely nothing preventing companies from participating in the exchange there's nothing wrong with purchasing coverage though the exchange.



The health insurance industry is still a free market though it is regulated. Get in the game and if you strike it rich save the Redskins from Snyder.


p.s. Thank you to all you young healthy lads who plan on paying that $750 fine, and good luck, you're bloody well going to need it.

That $750 fine is collected by the IRS and will end up in the general fund along with our SS money.