Obama Care

why hold back? if your going to attack, go full bore. from now, when i need a political opinion, ill ask you first. you seem to have all the answers

No it's saden who thinks he has all the answers.

thank god i dont have the answers. or otherwise i might feel compelled to " attack" someone

Explain to me how adding approximately 10% of new customers to an already overburdened and flawed system without a plan to expand the ability to provide services will lower costs? Yes, for those w/out coverage, better coverage is a given. For those with coverage, even a poor plan, explain to me how increasing the burden on providers will provide these individuals with "better coverage" either in a qualitative or quantitative way.

Another side effect I see from this plan is that more bad doctors will get into and stay in practice. They are in high demand now - particularly the GP's - and the only way that our current system will be able to handle the new customers will be to lower the standards for the profession. Get ready for an inflx of MD's from the Aruba School of Medicine.

Regardless - don't confuse this bill with healthcare reform. It is merely healthcare inflation.

The only reason you and I can afford healthcare is because we pool your hard earned dollars with our co-workers through our employer to negotiate a cheaper rate. The same principle applies with this bill as it sets up an exchange where anyone can purchase insurance. The bill also addresses increase in demand by allocating grants to Clinics and Health Centers (sec. 2511), grants for Nursing Education (sec. 2521), High School Health Science Training (sec. 2533), Health training programs for Community Colleges (sec. 118), class size reduction in nursing programs (sec. 2536). While the bill is not perfect it certainly goes a long way in addressing some of the future problems with our healthcare system. Let's not also forget that all of these new people won't use the system all at the same time.

If France can do it, we can do it. It's that simple.

On a more elemental level...will it cost more? I would think...yes?
How will that be paid for?

For the 260 Million insured, it is contradictory. For the portion of the 47 Million of young healthy adults who have no health issues (estimates run between 15-25 Million), it is a contradiction.

As I have argued before, by creating a governmental insurer of last resort, you will be creating an entity that will either a) be so cost inefficent as to be a huge money pit; or b) a system that will be just competitve enough to drive out similar private systems and make the more comprehensive plans affordable to only the wealthy.

Why is it contradictory? Unless you know something I don't it seems to me that you can keep whatever you have.




Insurance exchange | The bill would set up a new national health insurance exchange, a marketplace where individuals who do not have employer-sponsored insurance would be able to shop for plans. The exchange would also be open to small businesses, and more would be able to join each year. Companies with 25 or fewer employees would be able to join in 2013, companies with 50 or fewer employees could join in 2014, and companies with fewer than 100 employees could join by 2015.
Public insurance option | The health insurance exchange would include a government-run public plan. Federal officials would negotiate payment rates with doctors and hospitals that accept the plan.
Employer mandate | Employers with annual payrolls greater than $500,000 would be required to either provide health insurance for their employees, or contribute 8 percent of their payroll to a federal fund to help subsidize employees who purchase coverage through the exchange. Employers with payrolls less than $500,000 would be exempt from the mandate.
Individual mandate | Individuals will be required to purchase health insurance, or pay a penalty fee. Some people would be eligible to apply for a hardship waiver.

By increasing demand for Physicians but not increasing their supply, the cost to use them will increase. As costs increase, people will be forced to buy less coverage. Some will make sacrifices to maintain the same coverage, others will not be able to. Several weeks ago, you posted a link demonstrating the upcoming Dr. shortages. Do you expect fewer doctors to provide more services for less money?

Sure, you can keep what you have, but, as costs increase due to increased demand, fewer and fewer people will be able to keep what they have. Do you expect costs to stay the same even though you are increasing demand by at least 10-15% without increasing the supply? Do you believe premiums for private insurance will not increase? If not, why not? If so, do you believe that rising costs won't force many families into poorer coverage?

As for the public option, 1) If it offers competitive pricing to private insurers, it will eventually drive out these companies as it has an innate market advantage of not needing to be profitable. It can offer the same services, lose money and still draw from the public teat; 2) If it is not competitive and truly an insurer of last resort with a bare bones package, only those who are absolutely uninsurable, and thus the most costly to insure, will purchase it and, as they inevitably cost more to insure - and, of course, the horror stories of insufficient coverage will continue.

The only reason you and I can afford healthcare is because we pool your hard earned dollars with our co-workers through our employer to negotiate a cheaper rate. The same principle applies with this bill as it sets up an exchange where anyone can purchase insurance. The bill also addresses increase in demand by allocating grants to Clinics and Health Centers (sec. 2511), grants for Nursing Education (sec. 2521), High School Health Science Training (sec. 2533), Health training programs for Community Colleges (sec. 118), class size reduction in nursing programs (sec. 2536). While the bill is not perfect it certainly goes a long way in addressing some of the future problems with our healthcare system. Let's not also forget that all of these new people won't use the system all at the same time.

If France can do it, we can do it. It's that simple.

Okay. The various grants may bring some relief to the supply problem. I guess I don't think it will be enough. We simply don't produce enough doctors. As for France, don't know if they have the same med mal issues we have or how they regulate their doctors. I could be wrong but I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison.

Hopefully my gloom and doom is incorrect. I just think we wasted a real opportunity for reform that will, in a barely adequate manner, solve only the most basic problem - everyone has insurance (However,people are still going to be underinsured).

As far as I am concerned it's a done deal. I am beginning to look at the financial planning needed and sacrifices that will be necessary when, 5 years from now, my premiums will be doubled. If I am wrong - great! We will have a windfall. Not counting on it though.

The only reason you and I can afford healthcare is because we pool your hard earned dollars with our co-workers through our employer to negotiate a cheaper rate. The same principle applies with this bill as it sets up an exchange where anyone can purchase insurance. The bill also addresses increase in demand by allocating grants to Clinics and Health Centers (sec. 2511), grants for Nursing Education (sec. 2521), High School Health Science Training (sec. 2533), Health training programs for Community Colleges (sec. 118), class size reduction in nursing programs (sec. 2536). While the bill is not perfect it certainly goes a long way in addressing some of the future problems with our healthcare system. Let's not also forget that all of these new people won't use the system all at the same time.

If France can do it, we can do it. It's that simple.

So when you need open heart surgery your OK with the person who received their training at the local Community College?

So when you need open heart surgery your OK with the person who received their training at the local Community College?


You could do worse, could be getting it from someone that has high school training. We're all going to get treated by Community College graduates...we're doomed :eek:

I don't know why I bother :doh:

Mass. healthcare reform is failing us - The Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/03/02/mass_healthcare_reform_is_failing_us/) Tennessee Experiment's High Cost Fuels Health-Care Debate - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125046457087135327.html) . If our Senate signs the HC Bill , I hope they learn from past mistakes like these .