Obama Care

Too much philosophizing dog. I don't think you're dealing with the ego so much as the id....these folks are concerned with keeping more of their money.

aaaaaannnnddd were out. Saden is back to his dodge, avoid, deny. So close to actual self realization and he backs out.

Nope. Never been the problem and never been the assertion. Solve the problem in something approaching a cost effective manner and everybody on this board would go with you. Don't solve it or create a solution so expensive as it is doomed to fail, and no one backs it.

Holy cow man there may be no hope for you. I don't think you get it.

LOL, yeah I guess I'm doomed. What a terrible way to think, huh? I'm so dysfunctional. :doh:

And us "old folks" find the term "old" offensive. I thought you youthful idealists soaking up the wonderful radical left-wing, anti-U.S. propaganda from the pot-smoking, hippie, anti-war college professors would've had a course or two on Political Correctness and learned the proper term to describe us is "experienced". :spank: J/K

Anyway, I make my statement based on the historical fact that men have always sought to dominate/control other men for their own gain. In reality, not theory, Communism dictates rights come from the "state" (other men). These men are subject to human failings and we see what happens (my previous post, 94M dead). This wonderful experiment in democracy and the belief that all men have rights not given by other men, but by God, is currently the greatest force for freedom from government oppression the world has ever seen. Once you've "experienced" a bit more of life I'm sure you'll be a great voice for democracy and conservatism.

Haven't you heard the quote; "If you aren't a liberal at 20 you have no heart, if you aren't conservative at 40 you have no brain".

You must have missed the point where I said once we have shifted to conscious thinking. The idea is that if we could deny our egos, a commune would best serve everyone. Hard to believe, I know.

Also, don't stereotype too much. You have no idea what my beliefs are. Just because I try to think positive, I must be all those "bad" things you mentioned?

Haven't you heard the quote: "You can't teach an old dog new tricks."

BTW, I'm mostly conservative -- trust me.

Too much philosophizing dog. I don't think you're dealing with the ego so much as the id....these folks are concerned with keeping more of their money.
You really don't get it do you Saden, its not about keeping more money, it is about what type of government can actually work in this world. Its about not putting a massive debt on our childrens backs that will bury the promises of this country. You can ignore my posts on the debt as much as you want but that doesn't make it less real. Are their some who only think its about leave my money alone, sure, and ya know if they earned it, and contribute back reasonably, there is nothing wrong with that sentiment. But the big and real debates around the uhc is about what our future will be like, I for one would like it to be fiscally sound first, from their we can do all sorts of great things.

and of course the U.S. Census Bureau isn't influenced in any way by politicians & gov't bureaucrats interested in expanding the gov't sphere of influence.....:doh:

So before you completely discount the link, I'll break it down for you. The Census Bereau estimate of "uninsured" is 45.7M. What the Blue Cross, Blue Shield asserts is the following:

Of the 45.7M
- 14M would qualify for Medicaid/SCHIP or another gov't program to provide coverage.
- 13M make over $ 50K or more and have access to coverage and chose not to pay for it.
- 5.7M are short-term uninsured, or people who are between jobs, college grad, etc.
Total = 32.7M

The 8.2M number isn't in the link, and I'll have to look for where I found it again, but the 8.2M number includes an estimate of about 4.8M for illegal immigrants who were counted as "uninsured" by Census. Either way the 45.7M is grossly over-estimated. Using 8.2M as the real number of uninsured we have accounted for 82% of the 45.7M that you want covered....and we haven't passed any legislation or spent a dime.

Now back to my voucher point, why can't we use some sort of voucher for these 8.2M to buy private insurance, pass legislation limiting awards to malpractice lawsuits and see how things go, without a masive gov't intervention into health care.

You know what really bothers me? That you think the Census Bureau and BCBS are on the same playing field. I really did look at the document looking for methodology used and all I got was "Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 2002; BCBSA analysis." WTF does that mean? How did they arrive at "13M make over $ 50K" is beyond me.

I'm sorry but this document is totally unacceptable.

Self-interest is a product of the ego. You are not your ego -- it is separate from who you are, and it is a product of your mind. If you disagree, ask yourself: if you lose all your possessions are you any less? Your ego would say yes, because it identifies with forms. But if you are conscious, even in the slightest bit, you will understand why that is untrue. Perhaps you are totally unconscious. It is a plague that permeates mankind, so I wouldn't be surprised. However, I have hope that people will eventually awaken from their unconsciousness and be free of egoic thinking.

We are not, "driven by our own unconscious thinking," -- you are either driven by conscious thought, or by your ego (if you are unconscious). Since I suspect you are totally unconscious, I can understand why you think the ego is uncontrollable -- it has become you.

Conscious thinking is to be aware of your ego, and not let it control you (or be you, if you will). Do you think it is impossible to deny your ego? Would you be afraid of the results?

Jesus said, "Deny thyself." What do you think he meant?Taking some psychology courses are we? I didn't take too many of those, psycho-babble was never a big interest of mine, just an easy grade. But I thought the Ego was basically the balance between the Id & the SuperEgo. The Id was the "basic instinct" and the Super-Ego was the "conscience" or moral compass. The Ego was the balance in the real world between the two. I guess Psych classes have changed a bit.

And I don't think Jesus was referencing Freud. He was letting people know that if they wished to follow Him into the kingdom of Heaven they had to put God and Jesus' two commandments before their own selfish desires. I would also argue that Jesus is no fan of Communism seeing as Communists believe Jesus is just a figment of the stressed human imagination.

You must have missed the point where I said once we have shifted to conscious thinking. The idea is that if we could deny our egos, a commune would best serve everyone. Hard to believe, I know.I didn't miss your point, it just won't happen.

Also, don't stereotype too much. You have no idea what my beliefs are. Just because I try to think positive, I must be all those "bad" things you mentioned?The sterotype part was tongue-in-cheek, lighten up.

Haven't you heard the quote: "You can't teach an old dog new tricks."I have and I agree. Humans are about 200K years old and human nature hasn't really changed.

You know what really bothers me? That you think the Census Bureau and BCBS are on the same playing field. I really did look at the document looking for methodology used and all I got was "Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 2002; BCBSA analysis." WTF does that mean? How did they arrive at "13M make over $ 50K" is beyond me.

I'm sorry but this document is totally unacceptable.But what if those numbers are correct, or pretty close. I would say that changes the health care discussion, correct?

Administration Delaying Release of Key Economic Report (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/20/AR2009072002277_pf.html)

Interesting, though without looking it up - I will take the aadministration's word that this is fairly typical. I do think it is yet another reason to slow down and take a look at where the healthcare law before we just rush blindly into the night.

Taking some psychology courses are we? I didn't take too many of those, psycho-babble was never a big interest of mine, just an easy grade. But I thought the Ego was basically the balance between the Id & the SuperEgo. The Id was the "basic instinct" and the Super-Ego was the "conscience" or moral compass. The Ego was the balance in the real world between the two. I guess Psych classes have changed a bit.

And I don't think Jesus was referencing Freud. He was letting people know that if they wished to follow Him into the kingdom of Heaven they had to put God and Jesus' two commandments before their own selfish desires. I would also argue that Jesus is no fan of Communism seeing as Communists believe Jesus is just a figment of the stressed human imagination.

Stop for a second and pretend you don't know me. That will help you to better understand my points, rather than arguing with yourself based on your assumptions of me.

I'm 27, and I've been out of college for 5 years. The ideas I'm proposing are from no college course, so you can rest assured the curriculum hasn't changed.

Don't try and invalidate what I'm saying by using stupid cliche phrases, like "psycho-babble". You are better at debate than that. Don't lower yourself, because you think you know me -- and that me, and people like me, are the problem with this country. Remove emotion from your argument. I can tell you are frustrated with a certain type of thinking, which you have mistakenly assumed I am advocating. Take some time to try and understand what I'm saying, rather than assuming you already know, and looking like an ass.

I'm not talking about "ego" in the sense of Freud. I'm talking about the illusory self, the voice in your head that never stops talking. It's a Buddhist concept -- long before Freud. But, you're so smart, you probably knew that already.

I can't explain, "Deny thyself," as well as Eckhart Tolle, so I'll just quote him:

"And when Jesus said, 'Deny thyself,' what he meant was: Negate (and thus undo) the illusion of self. If the self -- ego -- were truly who I am, it would be absurd to 'deny' it."

Following in this vain of thought, Jesus also said, "If someone takes your shirt, let him have your coat as well." In other words, let go of the world of form -- the world of the ego. Let go of your ego, and its attachments.