Obama Care


Slingin Sammy 33
07-17-2009, 09:09 AM
I wonder who in the House Ways and Means Committee confirmed their suspicion?Good question.

Anywho, we're both men capable of reading the bill (http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf) for themselves. The subsection IBD referenced is part of a broader section that insures going forward that any government Qualified Health Benefits Plan meets certain requirements (affordable coverage, essential benefits, and consumer protection). That is to say private sector enterprises that want universal healthcare $$$ have to adhere to these set of rules. Now you're wondering what does this have to do with any of the scary stuff put forth by IBD? Well, the government has a grandfather clause in the bill which says private enterprises don't have to adhere to these rules with respect to individuals they currently have signed up.

Furthermore, both you and private enterprises are free to conduct business as usual (individually or through employer/group) but if the private enterprise want to sign you up under universal healthcare they must adhere to government requirements. Seems pretty reasonable and not so scary. If you didn't have such provisions private enterprises would sign-up their healthy clients through their own private plan and the not so healthy clients under universal healthcare.

I don't believe the hype and the snipes from IBD types.While IBD exaggerated the claim that private insurance will be outlawed, the Bill does force private insurance carriers to comply with the rules/regulations of the Health Insurance Exchange and new coverage may be purchased only through the Exchange.

IBD falsely claimed House health bill would "outlaw individual private coverage" | Media Matters for America (http://mediamatters.org/research/200907160040)

from the link: "Individual health insurance plans that do not meet the "grandfather" conditions would still be available for purchase, but only through the Exchange and subject to those regulations."

This error in source-checking or reading comprehension by the folks at IBD still doesn't account for the massive price tag (estimated by CBO at $ 1.5T, real numbers likely over $ 3T) or the fact that covering the uninsured could be done with tax-credits or vouchers much more cost-effectively rather than a full-scale government take-over of health care.

So, you and I, who are both at least reasonably intelligent/educated spent more than a minute or two researching and understanding what is involved in about 2-3 pages of this bill. There are 1018 pages in the .pdf. At the very least, don't you agree that more time should be taken to truly understand and evaluate such a major piece of legislation rather than ramming it through due to political considerations.

firstdown
07-17-2009, 09:24 AM
LOL @ Orwellian. I'm very impressed IBD, not so very slick stuff but scary nonetheless. Word of caution though IBD, if you're going to go after mainstream Americans to share your views avoid using righting rhetoric. The right wing is already with you and you really don't want to be seen as impartial. Did you see the wingnut vocabulary that I saw? I'm starting to suspect there's a wingnut grammar book out there, one that's due for a major tuneup.

Funny thing is you high lighted the stuff the left seems to ignore.

FRPLG
07-17-2009, 10:04 AM
This whole proposal highlights to me the problem with Washington politics. Both sides are so eager to do something about something that they ignore the details. The throw together a mishmash of proposals with no real understanding of what they mean in the real world. Slap a nice name on it so it sounds awesome. Put it out there and ignore everyone with a clue saying it wont work and then they pass it. The only people I see who are behind this deal are politicians. Oh plenty of people are behind the principles attached, they are truly noble and worth pursuin,g but this proposal is a steaming pile and everyone knows it. But at the end of the day politicians get to say they did something.

firstdown
07-17-2009, 10:13 AM
This whole proposal highlights to me the problem with Washington politics. Both sides are so eager to do something about something that they ignore the details. The throw together a mishmash of proposals with no real understanding of what they mean in the real world. Slap a nice name on it so it sounds awesome. Put it out there and ignore everyone with a clue saying it wont work and then they pass it. The only people I see who are behind this deal are politicians. Oh plenty of people are behind the principles attached, they are truly noble and worth pursuin,g but this proposal is a steaming pile and everyone knows it. But at the end of the day politicians get to say they did something.
Saden

GMScud
07-17-2009, 10:27 AM
This whole proposal highlights to me the problem with Washington politics. Both sides are so eager to do something about something that they ignore the details. The throw together a mishmash of proposals with no real understanding of what they mean in the real world. Slap a nice name on it so it sounds awesome. Put it out there and ignore everyone with a clue saying it wont work and then they pass it. The only people I see who are behind this deal are politicians. Oh plenty of people are behind the principles attached, they are truly noble and worth pursuin,g but this proposal is a steaming pile and everyone knows it. But at the end of the day politicians get to say they did something.

Seriously. It has the feel of the Dems wanting to shove 20 years worth of agenda down our throats ASAP. Especially the fact that Obama is pushing hard to get this crammed through Congress before the August recess.

firstdown
07-17-2009, 10:30 AM
Seriously. It has the feel of the Dems wanting to shove 20 years worth of agenda down our throats ASAP. Especially the fact that Obama is pushing hard to get this crammed through Congress before the August recess.
They want it passed before people wake up and realize what a sh!t a$$ plan he has. The term socialist for Obama is become to mild of a term.

GMScud
07-17-2009, 10:37 AM
They want it passed before people wake up and realize what a sh!t a$$ plan he has. The term socialist for Obama is become to mild of a term.

I mean it really does kind of feel that way. Why is it so damn urgent to force something this nation will struggle to pay for for decades through so quickly?? It's not as easy for Obama and Co to play fear politics with this one like they did with the pork.. um stimulus package.

Take your time and get it right. Overhauling the entire health care system should not be a hasty process. This administration really comes off as arrogant.

JoeRedskin
07-17-2009, 10:40 AM
I mean it really does kind of feel that way. Why is it so damn urgent to force something this nation will struggle to pay for for decades through so quickly?? It's not as easy for Obama and Co to play fear politics with this one like they did with the pork.. um stimulus package.

Take your time and get it right. Overhauling the entire health care system should not be a hasty process. This administration really comes off as arrogant.

Ahhhhhh!! Now I see the attraction for saden.

firstdown
07-17-2009, 10:45 AM
I mean it really does kind of feel that way. Why is it so damn urgent to force something this nation will struggle to pay for for decades through so quickly?? It's not as easy for Obama and Co to play fear politics with this one like they did with the pork.. um stimulus package.

Take your time and get it right. Overhauling the entire health care system should not be a hasty process. This administration really comes off as arrogant.

Its not about reducing cost or providing better care its a power grab by the Democrats no matter what the cost is or the damage it does. They just want control over more people so they can use them to gain votes. Thats why they did not want to allow Americans to use 2% of thier SS to invest on their own. Thats how they work and how they gain their power.

saden1
07-17-2009, 11:08 AM
We elected them on the basis of what they would do for us today not tomorrow. If the job doesn't get done now it's still there waiting to be done tomorrow and who knows what tomorrow may bring?

Arrogant eh? This coming from a man who said he should be at the front of the line in the waiting room because he paid and poor people don't. Come to think of it Steve Jobs aught be able to cut in front of you in the waiting room and on the wait lists.

If anything I'm filled with love for the meek. Be careful my friend before you label, you have a few labels on your forehead already.


Joe, you keep popping up randomly taking jabs but my chin seems to be holding up just fine. Ain't no glass jaw here dog. You need to work on your hooks and uppercuts cause your jabs are ineffective.

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