Obama Care

also let us remember that slavery was a worldwide tragedy and scourge. Romans had slaves during their empire.
Europe took it up before the United States even existed (http://web.cocc.edu/cagatucci/classes/hum211/timelines/htimeline3.htm)
1562 Britain begins its slave trade in Africa. Slave Trade increases significantly with development of plantation colonies of the Americas, especially in Brazil. Other countries involved in the European slave trade included Spain (from 1479); North America (from 1619); Holland (from 1625); France (from 1642); Sweden (from 1647); and Denmark (from 1697).
It was indeed worldwide (http://innercity.org/holt/slavechron.html):
http://innercity.org/holt/diasporo.jpg

This was a tragic time in world history and especially the history of the United States, and I don't know one person that I deal with who thinks otherwise.

Or one can recognize that it was the ideals of freedom which led to the day when every United States child can believe that he/she can hold the highest elected office, not because of their status or their wealth, but because they live in a land that offers individuals the ability to go where the parents did not. One must uncomfortably cry when the history of the United States is so blatantly perverted to promote the Federal takeover of the healthcare that it's supporters harken back the days of slavery, something long since abolished, denying the very ideals of freedom, and individual responsibility that great men such as Martin Luther King Jr - I have a dream (http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkihaveadream.htm) ... where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. , and John F Kennedy - Ask NOT what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country(don't hear many UHC supporters touting that line!) in US history proclaimed.

It is f'king laughable that you Saden, who cheer so loudly for Obama, demean the ideals of freedom that led us to this momentous period where he has risen to the presidency.

The Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You speech by John F. Kennedy (http://www.famousquotes.me.uk/speeches/John_F_Kennedy/5.htm)

One must wonder if all is well in America (http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Pool-Boots-Kids-Who-Might-Change-the-Complexion.html) in light of Obama's election. I say no and that we still have a long way to go.

also let us remember that slavery was a worldwide tragedy and scourge. Romans had slaves during their empire.
Europe took it up before the United States even existed (http://web.cocc.edu/cagatucci/classes/hum211/timelines/htimeline3.htm)

It was indeed worldwide (http://innercity.org/holt/slavechron.html):
http://innercity.org/holt/diasporo.jpg

This was a tragic time in world history and especially the history of the United States, and I don't know one person that I deal with who thinks otherwise.

How does slavery being a world wide practice absolve America of its sins? Don't you realize that when you speak of the founding of this country and the issue of freedom you're are in essence only speaking of freedom for Caucasians? You are making the founding of America something it is not, and that something is inclusive.

That's all I'm trying to say. It's fair assessment, it's an accurate assessment, and it's not meant to demean America; it is simply the truth.

I get it. There's certainly some hypocrisy in our history and how we preach things these days (it makes me physically cringe to say that).

I find a bit of irony in the fact that you seem rather anti-American History (at least the way it's talked about and taught), yet you favor the gigantic government side of the aisle.

Don't label me. I believe there is more to a government than simply providing a defense department. Providing social services is in the mandate of a government and "rising tides lift all boats" idiom is not limited in scope to to the realm of economics. Because I hold these view it doesn't mean I enjoy seeing my money wasted.

How does slavery being a world wide practice absolve America of its sins? Don't you realize that when you speak of the founding of this country and the issue of freedom you're are in essence only speaking of freedom for Caucasians? You are making the founding of America something it is not, and that something is inclusive.

That's all I'm trying to say. It's fair assessment, it's an accurate assessment, and it's not meant to demean America; it is simply the truth.

I did not say it absolved the US. I specifically said it was tragic ESPECIALLY in the US, because it was in direct opposition to the ideals that were stated in our founding documents. But, with respect to freedom, we have continued to march towards our ideals, not back into the erroneous ways of slavery. But with respect to individual responsibility that goes hand in hand with freedom and liberty, IMO -we are moving back towards the type of Government that enslaves the populace, not the type which empowers individuals.

Further the ideals, while not inclusively practiced at our founding(and I would argue that that was not purely US, but world wide beliefs of the time) it has broadened and grown in a short time (historically speaking) to where it is today.

One must wonder if all is well in America (http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Pool-Boots-Kids-Who-Might-Change-the-Complexion.html) in light of Obama's election. I say no and that we still have a long way to go.
Swim Club Members: "Nothing to Do With Race" | NBC Philadelphia (http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Swim-Club-Members-Nothing-to-Do-With-Race.html)
The Valley Club is deeply troubled by the recent allegations of racism, which are completely untrue.

We had originally agreed to invite the camps to use our facility, knowing full well that the children from the camps were from multi-ethnic backgrounds. Unfortunately, we quickly learned that we underestimated the capacity of our facilities and realized that we could not accommodate the number of children from these camps. All funds were returned to the camps and we will re-evaluate the issue at a later date to determine whether it can be feasible in the future.

Our Valley Club deplores discrimination in any form, as is evidenced by our multi-ethnic and diverse membership. Whatever comments may or may not have been made by an individual member is an opinion not shared by The Valley Club Board.

Daniel Veres, a 16-year old Hispanic teen who is also a member, says the entire situation is just a misunderstanding. "We're not judgmental, we're just friendly," Veres said of the mostly white club.

For the children involved, the entire situation has left them simply sad and confused.

"I heard one lady saying 'Why's there so many black kids here' cause she said she was afraid that we might do something to her child," recalled camper Dymire Baylor. "How could they say that?"

If given the chance, the campers say they wouldn't step foot in the swim club, but they will be able to swim once again this summer. Girard College, a private Philadelphia boarding school for children who live in low-income and single parent homes, stepped in and offered their pool to Creative Steps.

"We had to help," said Girard College director of Admissions Tamara Leclair. "Every child deserves an incredible summer camp experience."

So the kids were given a refund and a different pool stepped up and offered them a place to swim. This is a FAR cry from being abused and sold as slaves or even the seperate but equal fallacy. It sounds like the club royally screwed up and that some, maybe most, members there have personal hangups, but don't make this into some "The US is still racist" jargon.

Swim Club Members: "Nothing to Do With Race" | NBC Philadelphia (http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Swim-Club-Members-Nothing-to-Do-With-Race.html)


So the kids were given a refund and a different pool stepped up and offered them a place to swim. This is a FAR cry from being abused and sold as slaves or even the seperate but equal fallacy. It sounds like the club royally screwed up and that some, maybe most, members there have personal hangups, but don't make this into some "The US is still racist" jargon.


If you're talking about equality and freedom their refusal was a big TT FAIL. It doesn't really matter that they were able to get a different pool to host the kids. The president of the club said:

"There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club," John Duesler (http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/topics?topic=John+Duesler), President of The Valley Swim Club said in a statement.

It doesn't get clearer than that and the fact that they said they couldn't host 65 kids with 8 supervisors is total bs once you see at the size of the club (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=22+Tomlinson+Rd,+Huntingdon+Vly,+PA%E2%80%8E&sll=40.120694,-75.039566&sspn=0.002418,0.002795&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=17&iwloc=A). This is the club (http://web.archive.org/web/20070814083246/http://www.thevalleyclub.com/index.html).

http://web.archive.org/web/20070814083246/http://www.thevalleyclub.com/graphics/valley_club_cover.jpg


It doesn't take a genius to see this for what it is.

If you're talking about equality and freedom their refusal was a big TT FAIL.

I wholeheartedly agree with this part.

One must wonder if all is well in America in light of Obama's election. I say no and that we still have a long way to go.

If you're talking about equality and freedom their refusal was a big TT FAIL.

And so the unmitigated failure by one elitist club, that has been roundly condemned by every available outlet (show me one item saying that there exclusion of the kids was a good or even acceptable thing), is proof that the US as a nation has "a long way to go" towards racial tolerance and equality.

Talk about cherry picking your facts.

It's not impossible for the government to implement universal healthcare, but it's unreasonable to expect them to do it right? In other words, there is no way they can do it right. That is defeatist.

I'm not against looking at the failures, but when you never *ever* offer any positive ideas, and just keep saying why it won't work, that is defeatist. Also, it's lazy when you offer the reasons for failure "in the effort of prudence", but you never offer any advice about how it could work. In other words, you just want to examine the failures so you can continue to oppose Universal Healthcare. You don't want to examine to failures so you can correct them. That's lazy.

Why don't you come up with some positive ideas? How do you think it's possible for the government to take on such a huge financial burden? What would need to be sacrificed? I suspect your answers would be: What would need to be sacrificed?not possible and nothing.

Don't try and disguise your defeatist attitude with this crap. You know yourself that you're not interested in finding ways for it to work.

Why don't you come up with some positive ideas?
I just don't see any positives in this idea.

How do you think it's possible for the government to take on such a huge financial burden? To raise taxes over and over again to pay for a program that will run way over budget.

What would need to be sacrificed?
Higher cost and taxes.

not possible and nothing.
I don't think anyone here who is against the plan thinks its not possible its just that we feel its a bad idea.