Obama Care

Hell in that case we should reform all of our policies to only the strongest (economically) survive. Wave sayonara to the American Dream along with it.

Reagan would be proud. Yes , Reagan only wanted the filthy rich to have money and all labor workers and the enemployed to live in carboard shacks ???? So you think the Dems who had
Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemp-Roth_Tax_Cut) our taxes as high as 92% , no 401k plans , 1,000 / yr IRA contributions , 12-14% inflation rates and 14-22 % interst rates were fine , and helped the middle class ? In our system < Capitolism > everyone has the opprotunity to achieve wealth / higher standard of living .... it takes some hard work , dedication . Its like education and health care , if J. Doe cuts class , fails to put the time in to study , graduates ; does not attemp to learn a skill that will pay him a fair wage ... that is his choice . If J. Doe decides to ... drink, smoke , never exercise and like most people who have insurance , not go to a doctor , then even the best Ed. & HC system will do J.Doe and people like him any good . It is what we do as individuals that will determine what we have . Maybe you can explain to me how Dems are helping the middle class by taxing us up to and over $ 550,000 on what we leave our kids What is the Future of the Estate Tax? (http://wills.about.com/od/understandingestatetaxes/a/futureoftax.htm) ?

Would you agree that Barack Obama won the presidency chiefly because of voter discontent over the war? There were a number of factors that led to his victory, no doubt. But in my mind, at the top of the list was Iraq. Polls were running heavily against the war by the 2008 election -- and the Republican response? Nominate a man who suggested we might be there "a hundred" more years.Agreed here. The GOP and the Bush Admin didn't effectively communicate on Iraq, the American people don't have the patience for a conflict like this, and McCain was certainly a less than stellar candidate.

As defiant as conservatives accuse the democrats of being with regard to health care, the GOP was just as defiant in the face of public opinion about the war in Iraq.The difference here is that once the decision to go to Iraq was made, it was a requirement to win. No going back until Iraq was stabilized. The GOP had to be defiant and complete the job or it would've been disaster for our foreign policy and the safety of U.S. citizens long-term. Regardless of the politcal consequences.

The Dems hadn't completed the Obaminationcare bill, they could've pulled back, made concessions, etc. I even did the math, in a post earlier in this thread I believe, just giving a tax credit or voucher for the uninusred would've been dramatically more cost effective and kept the fed control out of the system. But to your post below, and I agree 100% this isn't about health care, it's about the left in this country making a larger voting block more dependent on gov't and solidifying themselves as the Politboru

Assuming everything comes up roses in Iraq -- and that's an awfully big "if" -- would it be worth it if the price we had to pay was a Marxist in the White House who paved the way for nationalized health care?Knowing what we know now, considering the devestating effect this Admin & Congress are having on the National Debt and the economy, considering the long-term damage to our foreign policy, and the erosion of personal liberty & freedoms with the HC law just the beginning (if the GOP doesn't regain control of at least the House or Senate in Nov.) then the answer is absolutely not.

Bush should've made a top priority to rebuild the HUMINT component of our intel services in the Middle East and use covert ops to keep Saddam under wraps until hard evidence of WMDs or nukes was uncovered.

We should have just copied France. Hands down the best healthcare in the world. People love to point to Canada for socialized medicine. But in a poll about healthcare, a majority of the top 30 countries (which the US was not a part of ranked 37th) have 'socialist' healthcare. Sorry folks, reform needed, and still needs, to happen. We need to be smarter about hospitals. Stop having every hospital getting each and every new gadget. You may have to travel a bit more to get the exact care, but the cost savings will be worth it if hospitals regionalise.

Here's a great article about the new bill, that highlights both the positive and negative. One thing to keep in mind, preventative care is much cheaper than waiting for someone to need hospitalization. I have a feeling that we'll see a lot more of that with this bill.

Health Care Reform: Tax Hikes on the Way - Kiplinger (http://kiplinger.com/businessresource/forecast/archive/health-care-reform-tax-hikes-on-the-way.html)

All those stupid polls I have seen are from a bias source so they don't mean squat. You really think we rank 37th in world on health care? Don't point to the world Health Organization because they are for everyone having health ins./ national health care.

when you have false intelligence reports a lot is possibleA Clinton hold-over provided the intel to Bush 2 for the Iraq War.

Seeing how this thread now suffers the LastPageLink disease, maybe SmootSmack can look down upon us and open a new thread-maybe called:

ObamaCare: Episode 5-The Empire Strikes Back

and in 10 years when we revisit this we will start with:

ObamaCare - episode 1: the Phantom HC menace
episode 2: Attack of the PC clone wars (pc=politically correct)
episode 3: Revenge of the sick

and obviously this threads title will have to be changed to -

ObamaCare Episode 4- a New Hope

Our health care system is fine. It's why people come here for it. Now how much it costs and how insurance works...that's f'd up. I wish it was called what it really is. Health insurance reform.

Couldn't agree more.

All those stupid polls I have seen are from a bias source so they don't mean squat. You really think we rank 37th in world on health care? Don't point to the world Health Organization because they are for everyone having health ins./ national health care.

FD - I do believe that, one hundred percent. Part of healthcare is people having access to healthcare. We have good care in this country, but people having access to it is the issue. You saying that the World Health Organization is for 'everyone having healthcare'. No shit. The world health organization wants everyone to have health insurance and access to care?

The fact that you don't want everyone to have access to healthcare is more shocking. I love how people skirt the whole France issue that have a socialized setup that provides amazing healthcare to all of their residents. We're one of the very few developed nations without national healthcare coverage.

Despite the claim by many in the U.S. health policy community that international comparison is not useful because of the uniqueness of the United States, the rankings have figured prominently in many arenas. It is hard to ignore that in 2006, the United States was number 1 in terms of health care spending per capita but ranked 39th for infant mortality, 43rd for adult female mortality, 42nd for adult male mortality, and 36th for life expectancy.3 These facts have fueled a question now being discussed in academic circles, as well as by government and the public: Why do we spend so much to get so little?
Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System | Health Care Reform Center (http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2610&query=TOC)

Take a look at this, and tell me that we're #1. We're lagging, severely in a lot of areas. The U.S. has the best health care system in the world (http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-healthcare.htm)

Instead of blindly saying "The US is better than everyone" for every single category. Try to look and see that we're lagging behind a lot of countries in a lot of areas. That's not to say this isn't a great country, but we need to constantly improve to stay on top.

I'm sick of seeing people bitch about making this country better. Is the system perfect, absolutely not. It has flaws. But it's interesting, we have no problem with tax hikes to pay for bombs that cost billions, yet taking care of our own people, people lose control. Holy crap, you might have to provide decent insurance for your employees?!?!?!?! If you can't afford it, shut your doors and go get a job for someone that can.

This is ridiculous. People on this site are always talking about how the US needs to stop taking care of every other country and take care of ourselves. This is a step in the right direction. As matty said earlier, what's not fair is 60% of all bankruptcies come not from poor financial planning, but needing a medical procedure. That, in my eyes, is complete bullshit.

We need much more reform than we have now. But I'll take this for a start.

Also, the fact that people will now go in and get preventative care will drastically cut down on emergency bills, which are far more expensive. I bet we see some savings within the medical community based on that alone. I want a country where people don't have to avoid the Dr. because they can't afford it.

FD - I do believe that, one hundred percent. Part of healthcare is people having access to healthcare. We have good care in this country, but people having access to it is the issue. You saying that the World Health Organization is for 'everyone having healthcare'. No shit. The world health organization wants everyone to have health insurance and access to care?

The fact that you don't want everyone to have access to healthcare is more shocking. I love how people skirt the whole France issue that have a socialized setup that provides amazing healthcare to all of their residents. We're one of the very few developed nations without national healthcare coverage.


Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System | Health Care Reform Center (http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2610&query=TOC)

Take a look at this, and tell me that we're #1. We're lagging, severely in a lot of areas. The U.S. has the best health care system in the world (http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-healthcare.htm)

Instead of blindly saying "The US is better than everyone" for every single category. Try to look and see that we're lagging behind a lot of countries in a lot of areas. That's not to say this isn't a great country, but we need to constantly improve to stay on top.

I'm sick of seeing people bitch about making this country better. Is the system perfect, absolutely not. It has flaws. But it's interesting, we have no problem with tax hikes to pay for bombs that cost billions, yet taking care of our own people, people lose control. Holy crap, you might have to provide decent insurance for your employees?!?!?!?! If you can't afford it, shut your doors and go get a job for someone that can.

This is ridiculous. People on this site are always talking about how the US needs to stop taking care of every other country and take care of ourselves. This is a step in the right direction. As matty said earlier, what's not fair is 60% of all bankruptcies come not from poor financial planning, but needing a medical procedure. That, in my eyes, is complete bullshit.

We need much more reform than we have now. But I'll take this for a start.

Please go back and find the post where I said that I do not want people to have health care.

Yes Frances system is falling apart unless a women likes to have a baby in a fire truck;
France Fights Universal Care's High Cost - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html)

A worker only pays about 50% of their pay check for health coverage and still it is in a financial crises. Maybe they need to pay 75% of their pay check to make it better. France Fights Universal Care's High Cost - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html)

FD - I do believe that, one hundred percent. Part of healthcare is people having access to healthcare. We have good care in this country, but people having access to it is the issue. You saying that the World Health Organization is for 'everyone having healthcare'. No shit. The world health organization wants everyone to have health insurance and access to care?

The fact that you don't want everyone to have access to healthcare is more shocking. I love how people skirt the whole France issue that have a socialized setup that provides amazing healthcare to all of their residents. We're one of the very few developed nations without national healthcare coverage.


Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System | Health Care Reform Center (http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=2610&query=TOC)

Take a look at this, and tell me that we're #1. We're lagging, severely in a lot of areas. The U.S. has the best health care system in the world (http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-healthcare.htm)

Instead of blindly saying "The US is better than everyone" for every single category. Try to look and see that we're lagging behind a lot of countries in a lot of areas. That's not to say this isn't a great country, but we need to constantly improve to stay on top.

I'm sick of seeing people bitch about making this country better. Is the system perfect, absolutely not. It has flaws. But it's interesting, we have no problem with tax hikes to pay for bombs that cost billions, yet taking care of our own people, people lose control. Holy crap, you might have to provide decent insurance for your employees?!?!?!?! If you can't afford it, shut your doors and go get a job for someone that can.

This is ridiculous. People on this site are always talking about how the US needs to stop taking care of every other country and take care of ourselves. This is a step in the right direction. As matty said earlier, what's not fair is 60% of all bankruptcies come not from poor financial planning, but needing a medical procedure. That, in my eyes, is complete bullshit.

We need much more reform than we have now. But I'll take this for a start.
I can't speak for FD , but few of us think 1) the Fed should do nothing , 2) " we think the US is better than everyone " . I think most people would have liked a bill that would help people in need .... example , INS Co. not being able to cut coverage , to help people that have type 2 diabetes , MS, MD , Cancer or even need help from medical costs as a result from car/industrial accidents . If the bill were smaller and condenced to help with the greatest need/s , I think would have been better . If , and I stress , if this bill causes small business to cut payroll , large business to also cut jobs , it could make things worse ? If the care that the working middle class suffers at the expense of provideing for people who won't work , that is IMO , not fiar or right . As far as tax hikes for bombs , we have not raised taxes since Clinton in 92 , our taxe rates our much lower today than 30 years ago . France , they do have some great health care on many levels . France is at the moment , moving towards some of what looks like our policies , to pay for the HC in France France Fights Universal Care's High Cost - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html).... The Health Care System Under French National Health Insurance: Lessons for Health Reform in the United States (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447687/). I just hope/want the people who have worked their asses off for the past 20/30 years , to not have to sacrifice too much at the expense of lazy < and some people are > , not saying most . I also think many Americans , right or wrong do not have a ton of faith in Washington making good on promises ....we have been told for 40 years that spending more on ED/ Higher learning would cut the cost of education , costs have increased over 400 % since 1970 . We were also told that Tabacco legislation would lower HC costs , that also has not happened ......... maybe we get this right one day soon ..... we shall see ?