Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

what if it was an American being water boarded? would that be OK?
Our special forces already go through this during SERE training.

Last I checked, Americans aren't beheading people and executing terrorist attacks on innocent people throughout the world.

EDIT: The last American terrorist we had (OK City, McVeigh) was executed. Which I have no problem with.

I'm with Schneed and Al Gore (while he was VP, see below), no problem with waterboarding these animals. Let's put this into perspective.

Only three high-level Al Qeada operatives were waterboarded:
KSM - Planner of 9/11, involved in WTC bombing, Bali nightblub bombings, beheaded Daniel Pearl
Abu Zubaydah - East African embassy bombings # 2 in Al Qeada, 25% of HUMINT obtained on Al Qeada come through or becasue of interrogation of Zubaydah
Al-Nashiri - Responsible for bombing of USS Cole, Limburg tanker bombing, Chief of Operations for Arabian Peninsula for Al Qeada

These pieces of s**t would torture any of us in the worst way, rape our wives/girlfriends, and then kill us all and believe their god will reward them for it. They declared war on us. Destroying Al Qeada and saving lives in the U.S. and abroad takes any precedence over a waterboarding/torture debate.

These are not enemy soldiers for another country. They are not covered under the Geneva Convention. They are terrorists, they exist to kill anyone who opposes them or their agenda. Do you think for one second if they had the ability to nuke the U.S. that they wouldn't? Do you think for a second if they had the power to take over/destroy the U.S. they wouldn't.

Not a lot I agreed with Clinton and Gore on, but Gore certainly had this one correct.

According to Clinton administration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_administration) official Richard Clarke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke):
“'extraordinary renditions', were operations to apprehend terrorists abroad, usually without the knowledge of and almost always without public acknowledgment of the host government…. The first time I proposed a snatch, in 1993, the White House Counsel, Lloyd Cutler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Cutler), demanded a meeting with the President to explain how it violated international law. Clinton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton) had seemed to be siding with Cutler until Al Gore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore) belatedly joined the meeting, having just flown overnight from South Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa). Clinton recapped the arguments on both sides for Gore: "Lloyd says this. Dick says that. Gore laughed and said, 'That's a no-brainer. Of course it's a violation of international law, that's why it's a covert action. The guy is a terrorist. Go grab his ass.'" [20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#cite_note-19)

Extraordinary rendition by the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition)

Clinton authorized this:
Talaat Fouad Qassem, 38, a known leader of the Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya (the Islamic Group), an Egyptian extremist organization, is arrested and detained in Croatia as he travels to Bosnia from Denmark, where he has been been living after being granted political asylum. He is suspected of clandestine support of terrorist operations, including the 1993 World Trade Center bombing (see February 26, 1993 (http://www.historycommons.org/item.jsp?item=a022693wtcbombing)). He also allegedly led mujaheddin efforts in Bosnia since 1990 (see 1990 (http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=torture,_rendition,_and_other_abu ses_against_captives_in_iraq,_afghanistan,_and_els ewhere_856#a90qassembosnia)). In a joint operation, he is arrested by Croatian intelligence agents and handed over to the CIA. Qassem is then interrogated by US officials aboard a US ship off the Croatian coast in the Adriatic Sea and sent to Egypt, which has a rendition agreement with the US (see Summer 1995 (http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=torture,_rendition,_and_other_abu ses_against_captives_in_iraq,_afghanistan,_and_els ewhere_856#a95renditionegypt)). An Egyptian military tribunal has already sentenced him to death in absentia, and he is executed soon after he arrives.

and this:
Over the next few months, according to the Journal, Albanian security forces, working with U.S. agents, killed one suspect and captured Attiya and four others. These men were bound, blindfolded, and taken to an abandoned airbase, then flown by jet to Cairo for interrogation. Attiya later alleged that he suffered electrical shocks to his genitals, was hung from his limbs, and was kept in a cell in filthy water up to his knees. Two other suspects, who had been sentenced to death in absentia, were hanged.

Who are we talking about (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iYeOUInDxFuT4T8CsYG9-_KfQ9pgD98AT5CO0)?

...In a March 2006 attack in Mahmoudiya, about 20 miles south of Baghdad, Green and three other soldiers went to the home of 14-year-old Abeer Qassim al-Janabi. Green shot and killed the teen's mother, father and sister, then became the third soldier to rape the girl before killing her.


...and garbing someone to bring them to justice (trying them in the court of law) is not the same as garbing them and torturing them.

Violence perpetuates violence.

what if it was an American being water boarded? would that be OK?
What's worse:

1) killing 3 Somali teenagers who haven't actually killed anyone.

or

2) waterboarding 3 adult terrorists who have murdered many.

Who are we talking about (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iYeOUInDxFuT4T8CsYG9-_KfQ9pgD98AT5CO0)?
What are you trying to say?

EDIT: just saw the bolded part, I get it. Question for you, if you could've waterboarded one of the 4 soldiers before the rape and murder of the Iraqi family and gained the intel to stop the murders, would you waterboard to get the info?

My opinion: If the facts stated are true & correct, that this ex-soldier and the other soldiers raped and murdered this girl and her family, they deserve the death penalty.

Dang I just gained a little respect for Gore:

Gore laughed and said, 'That's a no-brainer. Of course it's a violation of international law, that's why it's a covert action. The guy is a terrorist. Go grab his ass.'" [20]

Slingin' Sammy, you've quoted it and said "if, if, if" but never answered the question. Are you okay with American's being tortured?

Slingin' Sammy, you've quoted it and said "if, if, if" but never answered the question. Are you okay with American's being tortured?

I will answer this way, in a perfect world no one would torture, and/or be tortured. However, lets not play dumb a** and say Americans are NOT tortured. We have witnessed our soldiers dragged and beaten, civilians heads chopped off on the internet, planes flown directly into a civilian target. If I thought for half a second that us not torturing these agents would prevent these types of acts from re-occurring, then do not use these techniques. BUT our enemies will torture regardless of our actions, they will commit atrocities against civilians regardless of our civility, they will seek out targets that will cause mass casualties regardless of our attempts to use pinpoint accuracy and minimize civilian casualties.
Bottomline, no I do not want United States citizens tortured, but I recognize our enemies regardless of my desires, and so if we need to use brutal tactics on the very worst of the worst, then so be it

Slingin' Sammy, you've quoted it and said "if, if, if" but never answered the question. Are you okay with American's being tortured?
Our special forces are Americans. Our special forces go through waterboarding. Yes, I am OK with that. They have to be prepared for what they will face from our enemies if captured. It sucks that there are bad people in the world, but that's how it is.

I'm not quite sure what corner you're trying to paint me into here. Of course I'm not OK with Americans being tortured.

If there are Americans who decide to become terrorists and go out an kill innocent people in say, India, Poland, England, etc. and they get caught and their government feels that they need to waterboard them to get information to save the lives of their own citizens then I'm OK with that country doing what it needs to do to protect itself.

American soldiers are covered by the Geneva Convention, so if captured then they shouldn't be tortured under any circumstance. If we were at war with Russia or China and we caught some of their uniformed soldiers on the battlefield I would NOT be OK with torturing them.

Did I miss a specific scenario?

Violence perpetuates violence.

Sometimes violence ENDS violence. If someone is standing there hitting you KNOWING you won't hit back, diplomacy won't end it. But if you suddenly stand up & punch the guy in the face a few times, he'll stop.

Diplomacy can go only so far. With some people & certain TYPES of people, violence is the only thing that works.