Broncos to trade Cutler

I said before I don't want to get into Campbell bashing becasue that's not my MO...but I am tired of the bad OL crutch we give Campbell. The Steelers OL was horrible for most of the season and Ben always managed to make the playes needed for them to win. Do you think they would have won the Super Bowl with Campbell as starter?
I'm tired of this crappy "OL crutch" argument. I've blown this up in numerous posts so no need to re-type everything. Bottom line, have you ever played behind or coached with a poor OL at any level? My guess is No.

The following quotes are all mine from other posts/threads on the Campbell subject

- "....as the OL goes, so goes any offense. If an OL struggles I don't care who is at QB, they will struggle. Peyton Manning struggled early in the year with the OL injuries in Indy."

- "Poor argument. The Steelers success this year had a lot more to do with their # 1 defense than their offense. Big Ben's QB rating was actually 80.1 (JCs was 84.3) and his production was way off from last year when his OL was solid. The Steeler run game dropped off from last year from # 3, to # 23 in Yds. The Steeler offensive ratings are all in the bottom half of the league. This indicates pretty clearly that an OL drop-off hurts any offense, and is critical to offensive success."


- "After Week 2 and up until the Steelers game, the JC bashing crowd was nowhere to be found. Did JC magically just go from being one of the top performers in the league to being crap in 2-3 weeks? Did Portis go from being a top performer to crap in 2-3 weeks? Or maybe OL problems were really the major issue for our poor offensive performance."

- "The same arguments were made last off-season, those who supported Campbell last off-season were correct. He improved significantly from last season. This is not a point for dispute, it is fact. JC is not the problem, we've got issues on the OL that must be addressed or we will struggle in 2009."

- "I wish I had the sources you have around the "whole league". As most of the JC bashers, your analysis isn't based on any logic, stats or football knowledge. It's just a bunch of the same negative buzz-words/phrases parroted by those who want to be able to say "I told you so" when Campbell struggles. But, you same guys are going to be nowhere to be found when Campbell raises his QB rating into the 90s if we solidify the OL."

- "With a healthy OL he (JC) was putting up Pro Bowl level numbers in the first 8 games, first season in the WCO, with a below average WR corps."

- "It's interesting that when you look at Jason Campbell's QB rating numbers it confirms what can be seen about the offense....against good defenses the OL is overmatched. JC has played well this year, he's made a lot of plays either by a quick release or movement in (or out of) the pocket that could've ended in disaster. His turn-overs are down and overall his QB rating is up, despite the OL being in much worse shape than last year."

- "Let's look at reality here, we'll finish either 8-8 or 9-7. A Pete Kendell fumble and a poor first half against CIN don't happen and we're 10-6 or 11-5. This is with a new HC, an unproven young QB, a defense with no real playmakers in the front 7, and a secondary that was questionable in the pre-season."

Do you think we'll go 10-6 or 11-5 next year if we trade for Cutler? If we do (make the trade) then how do we address our holes at RT, LDE, OLB if we give up our # 1 this year and a # 1 or # 2 next year? Also keep in mind we may be able to fill two of our holes by trading down the # 13 this year.

From BHA's post # 575 "Frank Hammerhan is on ESPN980 right now and he just said that Zorn has no say in any of this. Earlier in the offseason, Zorn specifically told Cerrato and Snyder that he beleived Campbell would be successful in this system..."

I'll take this as a true statement. I trust Zorn's evaluation and judgement of Campbell a lot more than your "people around the NFL" comment. I agree Cutler is an upgrade over Campbell, but not a drastic one. Why would Denver want to take what they perceive as a step back. Even if they were interested in JC, they wouldn't say so or leak it publicly when they're floating a two #1 scenario for Cutler.

Also, just because Denver has "asked" for two # 1s doesn't mean they'll get it. Don't you think they're trying to set the market and also set themselves up for a reunion with Cutler when they can't get the # 1s they want. They hold the leverage, Cutler is under contract so why shouldn't they go for broke and try to set an unreasonable price. I hope we're not the ones dumb enough to pay it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Zorn, Vinny, and Synder are the one's pushing hard for Cutler. Zorn knows he might be out this year if he doesn't make the playoffs, and maybe he sees no progression in JC which is why he is gunning for Cutler. From Vinny's standpoint he's likely fired if we don't make the playoffs, and he made the trade to jump back into the 1st round in '05 and gave up our 1st in '06 to get JC and it's not working out. Synder wants to win and put people in the stands, and Cutler is the better QB to do that. Were the only team in the NFC East with an unproven QB (Manning, McNabb, Romo), so to get Cutler would give us a proven QB.

Vinny will never get fired.

I wouldn't be surprised if Zorn, Vinny, and Synder are the one's pushing hard for Cutler. Zorn knows he might be out this year if he doesn't make the playoffs, and maybe he sees no progression in JC which is why he is gunning for Cutler. From Vinny's standpoint he's likely fired if we don't make the playoffs, and he made the trade to jump back into the 1st round in '05 and gave up our 1st in '06 to get JC and it's not working out. Synder wants to win and put people in the stands, and Cutler is the better QB to do that. Were the only team in the NFC East with an unproven QB (Manning, McNabb, Romo), so to get Cutler would give us a proven QB.Prior to the Manning SB run in '07 many said he was "unproven". Romo can't win a playoff game and McNabb is in the twilight of his career. I don't think putting butts in seats is a concern of Snyder's, a 10 year waiting list for season tickets tends to put that concern aside. Selling jerseys and Club Level seats is another issue, but the only thing that addresses that is playoff level football. Cutler alone will not raise the Skins to that level.

I agree, and besides, we've already got a HUGE name in haynesworth to sell jerseys, if that's really the FO's agenda. As others have said, Cutler is a MARGINAL improvement at best, and just not worth giving up any draft picks for. We drastically need the #13 pick, whether to grab andre smith or to trade down and upgrade two needs, but I don't think this team is any better than last year if we sacrifice those needs to get a quarterback that is slightly better than campbell.

Besides that, jason campbell has character out the roof (see recent interview, and past ones for that matter) and jay cutler has close to none. Regardless of ability, I'd rather not have a whiny baby as the leader of the offense.

If we dont' make the trade and keep our picks and draft o-line first round, LB/maybe WR 3rd round, I see us having a great shot at the playoffs in 2009. If we take the bait and pay the exorbitant asking fee denver is probably looking for, I think we are an 8-8 team at best.

Vinny will never get fired.

well sense hes already been fired by dan once at martys request, i think your sadly mistaken

I think it is tough to be in Elway's shadow, but being the QB of the Washington Redskins is a far tougher gig. Given the fact that we're an east coast city and the Redskins are popular enough to trump any other professional and college sports team when it comes to the attention they get.

Well I'll put it this way. Both are hard core NFL cities and are tough places to play QB. If Cutler can play there then he can play here.

I wouldn't be surprised if Zorn, Vinny, and Synder are the one's pushing hard for Cutler. Zorn knows he might be out this year if he doesn't make the playoffs, and maybe he sees no progression in JC which is why he is gunning for Cutler. From Vinny's standpoint he's likely fired if we don't make the playoffs, and he made the trade to jump back into the 1st round in '05 and gave up our 1st in '06 to get JC and it's not working out. Synder wants to win and put people in the stands, and Cutler is the better QB to do that. Were the only team in the NFC East with an unproven QB (Manning, McNabb, Romo), so to get Cutler would give us a proven QB.

Proven Qb? Really?
As a full time starter Cutler in his entire NFL career went:

2007 record 7-9
2008 record 8-8

Yes he is a QB in the NFL. That is proven. But if you imply Cutler is the real deal like a Manning, McNabb or even Romo...no he is not.

I'm tired of this crappy "OL crutch" argument. I've blown this up in numerous posts so no need to re-type everything. Bottom line, have you ever played behind or coached with a poor OL at any level? My guess is No.

The following quotes are all mine from other posts/threads on the Campbell subject

- "....as the OL goes, so goes any offense. If an OL struggles I don't care who is at QB, they will struggle. Peyton Manning struggled early in the year with the OL injuries in Indy."

- "Poor argument. The Steelers success this year had a lot more to do with their # 1 defense than their offense. Big Ben's QB rating was actually 80.1 (JCs was 84.3) and his production was way off from last year when his OL was solid. The Steeler run game dropped off from last year from # 3, to # 23 in Yds. The Steeler offensive ratings are all in the bottom half of the league. This indicates pretty clearly that an OL drop-off hurts any offense, and is critical to offensive success."


- "After Week 2 and up until the Steelers game, the JC bashing crowd was nowhere to be found. Did JC magically just go from being one of the top performers in the league to being crap in 2-3 weeks? Did Portis go from being a top performer to crap in 2-3 weeks? Or maybe OL problems were really the major issue for our poor offensive performance."

- "The same arguments were made last off-season, those who supported Campbell last off-season were correct. He improved significantly from last season. This is not a point for dispute, it is fact. JC is not the problem, we've got issues on the OL that must be addressed or we will struggle in 2009."

- "I wish I had the sources you have around the "whole league". As most of the JC bashers, your analysis isn't based on any logic, stats or football knowledge. It's just a bunch of the same negative buzz-words/phrases parroted by those who want to be able to say "I told you so" when Campbell struggles. But, you same guys are going to be nowhere to be found when Campbell raises his QB rating into the 90s if we solidify the OL."

- "With a healthy OL he (JC) was putting up Pro Bowl level numbers in the first 8 games, first season in the WCO, with a below average WR corps."

]
"It's interesting that when you look at Jason Campbell's QB rating numbers it confirms what can be seen about the offense....against good defenses the OL is overmatched. JC has played well this year, he's made a lot of plays either by a quick release or movement in (or out of) the pocket that could've ended in disaster. His turn-overs are down and overall his QB rating is up, despite the OL being in much worse shape than last year."[

- "Let's look at reality here, we'll finish either 8-8 or 9-7. A Pete Kendell fumble and a poor first half against CIN don't happen and we're 10-6 or 11-5. This is with a new HC, an unproven young QB, a defense with no real playmakers in the front 7, and a secondary that was questionable in the pre-season."

Do you think we'll go 10-6 or 11-5 next year if we trade for Cutler? If we do then how do we address our holes at RT, LDE, OLB if we give up our # 1 this year and a # 1 or # 2 next year? Also keep in mind we may be able to fill two of our holes by trading down the # 13 this year.

From BHA's post # 575 "Frank Hammerhan is on ESPN980 right now and he just said that Zorn has no say in any of this. Earlier in the offseason, Zorn specifically told Cerrato and Snyder that he beleived Campbell would be successful in this system..."

I'll take this as a true statement. I trust Zorn's evaluation and judgement of Campbell a lot more than your "people around the NFL" comment. I agree Cutler is an upgrade over Campbell, but not a drastic one. Why would Denver want to take what they perceive as a step back. Even if they were interested in JC, they wouldn't say so or leak it publicly when they're floating a two #1 scenario for Cutler.

Also, just because Denver has "asked" for two # 1s doesn't mean they'll get it. Don't you think they're trying to set the market and also set themselves up for a reunion with Cutler when they can't get the # 1s they want. They hold the leverage, Cutler is under contract so why shouldn't they go for broke and try to set an unreasonable price. I hope we're not the ones dumb enough to pay it.

This comment says so much, Cutler did not play in the NFC east, he did not go against 3 top 10 defenses within his own devision 6 times. There was no top 10 defense in the AFC west. He also had to throw the football because of no running game, this is why he had the passing yards that many are in love with. We should look more to the passing efficiency numbers for this pass happy guy, we will see no viable improvement over what we have, and we will still keep our draft picks to improve our weaknesses.

I've heard Cutler's cap number is $1 million next year with a trade.

He's got some escalator clauses in there that could give him an extra $6 or so million next year

I agree if we take the bait 8-8 at best we have bigger needs, if we do the deal i hope Zorn knows if we don't do good he will be gone and they will bring in Mike Shannahan.