Mark Sanchez at 13th?

Its not "hate" of Campbell. He has his own sets of strenghts and weaknesses, just like any other QB. The problem is he doesnt get to use his natural strenghts in the WCO and his weaknesses are magnified 100 times. Bringing on Zorn and his WCO and expecting it to work with Campbell was a horrible decision on the FOs part... which brings me to the issue here"Hey, I'm totally okay with you saying we shouldn't extend Jason Campbell's contract just yet. There is nothing wrong with a wait and see approach here.

But your assessment of Campbell's weaknesses center around him being "slow." If you want to see slow, you have to watch guys like McNabb, Roethlisberger, JaMarcus Russell, or someone really young like Joe Flacco.

The truth is that Jason Campbell isn't slower than you would expect a player at his age and experience level to be. There is zero reason to believe he can't improve his WCO mechanics from year to year.

See, this is the kind of thing that you NEED the opinion of the experts on. No one cares whether Trent Dilfer thinks Mark Sanchez is going to be great. But an untrained eye can't tell if a QB is going through his progressions at the right speed. I don't see any overt problem here, so until someone comes out and suggests that it's just not happening fast enough, your position on this one continues to be in the "crackpot evidence" category.

The bottom line question is this - What actions can we take to have the best long-term effect on the franchise?

So how would possibly trading up help us long-term, if we're sacrificing future picks?

:doh:

yep.

What is best for the team is what SHOULD be done, regardless of who the onwer and GM are. I think the more appropriate phrase would be; Will DS & VC do what should be done in the best interest of the Redskins.
Like it or not, Snyder is the owner of this team; he probably will be for the next 30+ years; and he's not going to change... atleast not anytime soon. If you expect change, then you're just going to be disappointed for the next 30 years. However, if we accept DS and then find a way to "work around" him, then we can start making some progress. This team has been in search of a franchise QB for years. If we get a franchise QB, and keep the same system for 3-4 years, then we have plenty of time to build the pieces around him. It would be nice if we had done that with JC after we drafted him but we didnt. He's damaged goods and and if we don't cut ties with him this year, we certainly will next year. Its time to move on.

Your statement is completely wrong. You can't count the number of times JC over or under-threw wide open receivers on a mid-short throw, because there just weren't many. If JC is inaccurate anywhere it's his deep ball, those he misses on more than his short/mid-range throws.
No, my statement is not wrong. yours shows that you dont remember a thing from last season. Jason RARELY threw deep at all. 90-95% of his passes were in the short- to medium- range and he was just awful. Receivers were regularly having to adjust dramatically to get to the ball, and it really hurt our YAC, which in turn resulted in more long 3rd downs, which resulted in JC throwing 3 yards short of a 1st down, which resulted in ended drives, which resulted in offensive futility, which resulted in us relying too heavily on our defense which resulted in us losing games. JCs strength has always been a big arm, an accurate deep ball, and play action. His weaknesses have always been indecision coupled with a slow release (likely a result of constant system changes and less than elite offensive line giving him extraordinary time), and touch and accuracy on the short stuff. JC is a guy who would THRIVE in the system he was drafted for and the modified system Saunders brought. Why we decided to make him start from scratch and learn another system is beyond me.

[guote=GTripp0012]But your assessment of Campbell's weaknesses center around him being "slow." If you want to see slow, you have to watch guys like McNabb, Roethlisberger, JaMarcus Russell, or someone really young like Joe Flacco.[/quote] Theres nothing "wrong" with any of those QBs. They are good in their systems but they rely far too heavily on an offensive line. At the beginning of last season, Peyton Manning lost 4 of his 5 starting linemen last year, his starting running back, and he had only one good receiver... yet the Colts still played extremely well. Why? Because he's quick and makes extremely good decisions. He doesnt need an offensive line to regularly protect him for 4 seconds like the Jason Campbells and Ben Rothlesburgers of the world. Its easier to replace one QB than it is to replace 3-4 starting linemen and thats exactly what we would have to do right not to give Campbell what he needs to succeed.

So how would possibly trading up help us long-term, if we're sacrificing future picks? If the guy you are trading up for is a QB who you can build a team around, then its absolutely worth it. If he isn't, then its a colossal mistake and you will be worse off than you were before. Its an enormous risk - one that would push the skins in a definative direction: Towards joining the leagues elite (Pats, Colts, Giants, Steelers) or bottom-dwellers (Lions, Raiders, Bengals). In my opinion, its a risk worth taking. If it fails, then atleast it ensures we'll be rid of Vinny Cerrato once and for all. Not making the move ensures the skins remain what they have been for nearly 20 years: mediocre. I don't know about you, but I'm sick of mediocre.

I'm kind of shocked at how MS's stock has just sky rocketed. I know he's a team leader, he's pretty talented and he's a big rah rah gym rat kind of guy. But if I were to compare him to Carson Palmer ( when Palmer was coming out) there is not comparison. Palmer when healthy is just a top 5 NFL QB. I just don't think Sanchez is in that same ballpark talent wise. If he was I wouldn't have a problem with the FO going after a talented player like that. But to me Sanchez is a 2nd round player. Campbell needs to improve but he isn't the big weak link on this team and everyone knows it. I'm just wondering if this Sanchez hype is more about marketing or is it about winning?

If the guy you are trading up for is a QB who you can build a team around, then its absolutely worth it. If he isn't, then its a colossal mistake and you will be worse off than you were before. Its an enormous risk - one that would push the skins in a definative direction: Towards joining the leagues elite (Pats, Colts, Giants, Steelers) or bottom-dwellers (Lions, Raiders, Bengals). In my opinion, its a risk worth taking. If it fails, then atleast it ensures we'll be rid of Vinny Cerrato once and for all. Not making the move ensures the skins remain what they have been for nearly 20 years: mediocre. I don't know about you, but I'm sick of mediocre.Again, to say this is missing the point. We're not "building" anything. At all. We're playing everyone's favorite NFL game, QB roulette.

One of my firm beliefs is that Donovan McNabb has been a detriment to the Eagles since they've been at the highest level of competition for so many years. I've always thought that QB was a position that they could try to make a significant upgrade at. I say this despite strong evidence that McNabb is a good, and at times, great Quarterback.

But you see, in order to build a team that wins consistently, the Eagles have to constantly build the team up around Donovan to win. They can't waste years upon years looking for someone better. It's called diminishing returns. They have to give up the best possible team they can and hope that in the playoffs, he can get going on a run that takes them to the super bowl. It's simply their best chance.

Think of it from this angle: they obviously made the right choice in 1999 taking him over Ricky Williams and all the other QBs. But just because they did everything right doesn't mean there wouldn't be better options out there in the past and future.

You just don't seem to understand that taking Sanchez doesn't change a goddamn thing. NOTHING IS DIFFERENT. WE STILL NEED TO IMPROVE THE BLOCKING AND HOPE FOR A QUICK DEVELOPMENT OF THE WIDE RECEIVERS WE DRAFTED. The only thing that changes is now we have uncertainty at the QB position. Instead of "How good can Jason Campbell be?" the question becomes "Can Mark Sanchez even play in the NFL?"

Ultimately, BHA, your disdain for Jason Campbell is causing you to say totally ridiculous things about the Quarterback position. There is no "disagreement" here. Your position just starts and ends with the desire to have anyone else but Campbell under center by 2010. To you, that has become more important than winning.

I think I now know what the Front Office thinks about our line.

C Samuals - The best, will continue to be dominant
D. Dockery - Paired with Samuals will help us get a nice push as well as help Rabach out against Nose Tackles
C. Rabach - Buges likes him so that's good enough for everyone else
R. Thomas - Apparently he's healthy now
S. Heyer - Hopefully fear of loosing his best chance to play in the league will force him to fix his technique once and for all

C. Rhinehart - He'll develop
J. Jansen - Bad all year starter, great backup
J. Fabini - Good Backup
Justin G. - Well someone needs to play backup at center.

And for anyone curious the following have expiring contracts after this year. Though I'd be amazed if some of them hit the open market

- Marcus McNeil
- Michael Roos
- Eric Winston
- Alex Barron
- Winston Justice
- Jeremy Trueblood

If the guy you are trading up for is a QB who you can build a team around, then its absolutely worth it. If he isn't, then its a colossal mistake and you will be worse off than you were before. Its an enormous risk - one that would push the skins in a definative direction: Towards joining the leagues elite (Pats, Colts, Giants, Steelers) or bottom-dwellers (Lions, Raiders, Bengals). In my opinion, its a risk worth taking. If it fails, then atleast it ensures we'll be rid of Vinny Cerrato once and for all. Not making the move ensures the skins remain what they have been for nearly 20 years: mediocre. I don't know about you, but I'm sick of mediocre.

I think you've brought this notion up in the past, haven't you? This idea of "If things go the way we hope, we'll fail so miserably changes will have to be made." That's a curious way to think.

I think I now know what the Front Office thinks about our line.

C Samuals - The best, will continue to be dominant
D. Dockery - Paired with Samuals will help us get a nice push as well as help Rabach out against Nose Tackles
C. Rabach - Buges likes him so that's good enough for everyone else
R. Thomas - Apparently he's healthy now
S. Heyer - Hopefully fear of loosing his best chance to play in the league will force him to fix his technique once and for all

C. Rhinehart - He'll develop
J. Jansen - Bad all year starter, great backup
J. Fabini - Good Backup
Justin G. - Well someone needs to play backup at center.

And for anyone curious the following have expiring contracts after this year. Though I'd be amazed if some of them hit the open market

- Marcus McNeil
- Michael Roos
- Eric Winston
- Alex Barron
- Winston Justice
- Jeremy Trueblood

That post actually eases my mind regarding our O-Line. I know we still need some infusion of youth and top tier talent. But we aren't forced into reaching fo a guy, like Oher, instead of drafting best player available. Mauualuga!

I think you've brought this notion up in the past, haven't you? This idea of "If things go the way we hope, we'll fail so miserably changes will have to be made." That's a curious way to think. I was just trying to look at the positive aspect of even the worst-case scenario (Vinny being gone for good). Trading up to draft Sanchez would be a huge risk, but i think its a risk worth taking because of the potential rewards (building around a franchise QB and becoming an elite team). If Snyder drafted Sanchez, then fired zorn and brought in Gruden or Cowher in 2010, it would be a monumental failure. Snyder would need to ensure that Zorn (or if he had to make a change, Shanahan or Holmgren) kept the same (or very similar) system in place - otherwise Sanchez would just become Patrick Ramsey 3.0 (Campbell is 2.0).


You just don't seem to understand that taking Sanchez doesn't change a goddamn thing. NOTHING IS DIFFERENT. WE STILL NEED TO IMPROVE THE BLOCKING AND HOPE FOR A QUICK DEVELOPMENT OF THE WIDE RECEIVERS WE DRAFTED. The only thing that changes is now we have uncertainty at the QB position. Instead of "How good can Jason Campbell be?" the question becomes "Can Mark Sanchez even play in the NFL?"

Ultimately, BHA, your disdain for Jason Campbell is causing you to say totally ridiculous things about the Quarterback position. There is no "disagreement" here. Your position just starts and ends with the desire to have anyone else but Campbell under center by 2010. To you, that has become more important than winning.

I have NOTHING against Campbell. I have said over and over again that we wouldnt be having this discussion if we hadnt brought in Zorn and the WCO. Campbell would be lightyears ahead of where he is now and in a system that covered his flaws and played to his strenghts... Campbell would probably be a pro-bowler now if we had kept the Gibbs/Saunders system here... but we didnt. I am positive Campbell will never become a franchise QB in this system. So, I have a dilema - either the system goes, or Campbell does. I pick Campbell to go, if, for no other reason, than i think he might go postal on everyone at Redskins park right before his head explodes. I pick the system to stay, if for no other reason than it'll prevent all the other offensive players wont have to learn anything new this offseason either... thus furthering their development. To reiterate, i dont hate Campbell. I hate the "match" Snyderatto made last offseason. Campbell is a square peg. Zorns system is a round hole - it aint ever gonna fit.

I find it strange that you and other people point to Campbells improvement in some areas as reasons to stick with him... yet you want to give up on guys like Stephon Heyer, who have also shown steady improvement year after year... Why not have faith that Heyer will develop into a solid, if not elite, RT?