6 Years Later Iraq Better but Still Shaky

I'll spell it out for u since u somehow missed the point... in WWII there was no question. People DID encourage their loved ones to join because the fate of the world rested in our hands. My parents and grandparents (when they we're living) can attest to this. Iraq is the opposite. People of a certain political persuasion r gung-go until it involves their loved ones. You might say this war doesn't pass the smell test, because people aren't willing to see their loved ones in harm's way. It's pretty simple.


your point was not missed, just stupid , imo. please don't try to compare people from the ww2 era to people today. back then people understood the meaning of GOD, family and hard work.

Well that dialogue went downhill quick LOL.

LOL. Give him a break, I think he's trying to make a point. Wait for it...wait for it...wait for it, it's coming any time now...

I'll spell it out for u since u somehow missed the point... in WWII there was no question. People DID encourage their loved ones to join because the fate of the world rested in our hands. My parents and grandparents (when they we're living) can attest to this. Iraq is the opposite. People of a certain political persuasion r gung-go until it involves their loved ones. You might say this war doesn't pass the smell test, because people aren't willing to see their loved ones in harm's way. It's pretty simple.
I thought for WWII we had a draft and people also sign on themself but I don't think loved ones encouraged the husbands and sons to join. Its more that some wanted to serve and their love ones back their decision.

232 Years later, our nation is still "shaky" and not yet perfected.

Iraq has come a LONG way from being the savage dictatorship they were just a few years ago. In fact, because of our help, it could be said they've progressed faster than we did after our own founding. We trashed our founding documents and started all over again a decade into the experiment.

Your assessment to me boils down to the highlighted line. According to you Vietnam was a win, Korea was a win. As with everything in life taking a long term view tremendously increases the chance of success. I could take the same long term view with respect to Iraq and say in 100 years Iraq would become a "democracy" without us having to go to war.

Well, I do think life is better viewed in a longterm view, and I think it is a big stretch to say Iraq would necessarily have been a democracy in 100 years without our involvement.

232 Years later, our nation is still "shaky" and not yet perfected.

Iraq has come a LONG way from being the savage dictatorship they were just a few years ago. In fact, because of our help, it could be said they've progressed faster than we did after our own founding. We trashed our founding documents and started all over again a decade into the experiment.

Outstanding point

Perhaps it's time to explore going into Sudan and continue to spread democracy?

Well, I do think life is better viewed in a longterm view, and I think it is a big stretch to say Iraq would necessarily have been a democracy in 100 years without our involvement.
I don't think we can really call Iraq a democracy until we are out of there and they are having fair and honest elections on their own. The hope is that they stay a democracy and it spreads over the middle east but thats asking alot.

I served 5 years my friend, in the early 90's; if I had given my life, my family would have considered it a personal loss, but they would have known i joined with open eyes, and would have been proud of my contribution. No one forced me to join, and when i swore my oath, i did not say "but if i die it is a loss" I did not want to die, i did not even want to go to bosnia (and thankfully didn't, my unit left 1 month after i pcs'd to the states) but it was my duty, and one i would have done if called upon. to ask that question demeans our soldiers and their families. No one person will consider a lost life a win in any situation. If a man goes to jail, his family will consider it a loss, but if it upholds our country's laws it may very well have been a win. No one family, when focused on their child/sibling/parent will consider a death a win, but they may see the it as a part of a greater truth, and gain strength and peace in that vision.

My friend, every loss is tragic, 9-11 was tragic, the kurds who were tossed in the mass graves were tragic, our soldiers sacrifice is tragic, but if in the end a government is formed that prevents any more mass grave, allows free participation in the political process, and provides for stability in the region then our families will look on their personal tragedy with a belief that it was not in vain.

Very well said.