Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign

It's not just letting Ryan Clark go. Those mistakes happen from time to time w/ every team, well most teams.

It's then replacing him w/ AA. That's the kick in the a**. I said it before, but whoever made that decision should be fired immediately. VC made that decision by the way per VC.
VC is taking the bullets for Greg Williams. This was a Greg Williams decision all the way. I really get sick of hearing everyone dump on the FO for Lloyd, ARE & Arch. These were bad signings, pushed by Al Saunders, and Greg Williams. Gibbs as a manager was giving his assistants the tools they supposedly needed. These signings went south and Saunders and Williams are gone. WTF else does anyone want.

Saunders and Williams had Gibbs' support and neither DS or VC was going to go counter to Gibbs' wishes. Had they done that, they hysteria here would've been more over the top than it already is sometimes.

When Gibbs left the big questions was, why didn't GW get the job? The Arch thing and personality conflicts with the FO were probably the major reason. Hindsight on that looks pretty good now IMO, how about some props to the FO for getting that one right.

Bottom line is we have the correct structure in place. Zorn has input as every coach should, but the bottom line in player selection falls squarely on VCs. We can't fully evaluate Thomas, Kelly, Davis, their progression in 2009 will be key though. Tyron, Brooks, probably bad, but they were 4/5 rounders and many get cut across all NFL teams. We needed a punter and the #1 punter coming out of college wasn't a bad pick, he just didn't make the transition. Colt Brennan is the next Joe Montana / Tom Brady in waiting (SARCASM ALERT) and I'd say Horton was a pretty good pick. We didn't break the bank in FA, and the Taylor signing was a 1 year rental that didn't pan out. It was a risk taken under duress anyway. No way we could've addressed all our needs in one draft, and when we picked Thomas the players targeted on the DL were already taken. The Davis pick is still a bit of a head-scratcher, IMO there were still solid players on the DL, CB and OL available, but I'm willing to leave the jury out on that one until 2009/2010.

Let's not under-estimate the severity of the blow losing ST was either. He was signed to a reasonable contract and was arguably a top 5 defensive player in the league. He's taken away with zero compensation....that's a huge void to fill in so many ways. Can we have just a small bit of patience and see what happens this off-season. If we can fill a few holes there's no reason we can't be a contender in 2009, and in 2008 were still in the chase for the playoffs going into Week 16.

VC is taking the bullets for Greg Williams. This was a Greg Williams decision all the way. I really get sick of hearing everyone dump on the FO for Lloyd, ARE & Arch. These were bad signings, pushed by Al Saunders, and Greg Williams. Gibbs as a manager was giving his assistants the tools they supposedly needed. These signings went south and Saunders and Williams are gone. WTF else does anyone want.

Saunders and Williams had Gibbs' support and neither DS or VC was going to go counter to Gibbs' wishes. Had they done that, they hysteria here would've been more over the top than it already is sometimes.

When Gibbs left the big questions was, why didn't GW get the job? The Arch thing and personality conflicts with the FO were probably the major reason. Hindsight on that looks pretty good now IMO, how about some props to the FO for getting that one right.

Bottom line is we have the correct structure in place. Zorn has input as every coach should, but the bottom line in player selection falls squarely on VCs. We can't fully evaluate Thomas, Kelly, Davis, their progression in 2009 will be key though. Tyron, Brooks, probably bad, but they were 4/5 rounders and many get cut across all NFL teams. We needed a punter and the #1 punter coming out of college wasn't a bad pick, he just didn't make the transition. Colt Brennan is the next Joe Montana / Tom Brady in waiting (SARCASM ALERT) and I'd say Horton was a pretty good pick. We didn't break the bank in FA, and the Taylor signing was a 1 year rental that didn't pan out. It was a risk taken under duress anyway. No way we could've addressed all our needs in one draft, and when we picked Thomas the players targeted on the DL were already taken. The Davis pick is still a bit of a head-scratcher, IMO there were still solid players on the DL, CB and OL available, but I'm willing to leave the jury out on that one until 2009/2010.

Let's not under-estimate the severity of the blow losing ST was either. He was signed to a reasonable contract and was arguably a top 5 defensive player in the league. He's taken away with zero compensation....that's a huge void to fill in so many ways. Can we have just a small bit of patience and see what happens this off-season. If we can fill a few holes there's no reason we can't be a contender in 2009, and in 2008 were still in the chase for the playoffs going into Week 16.

I think people like to overlook the fact that Gibbs was in some way, shape, or form involved in some of these bad acquisitions. Don't get me wrong, Gibbs did great things for this franchise during his second stint, and I will not overlook that nor am I trying to undermine them. However, a lot things that people like to blame solely on Vinny and Snyder, were done either because of Gibbs or with support. Let's not forget that Snyder gave Gibbs a blank check on decision making, and as it has been stated before, DS or VC would never have gone against Gibbs wishes.

That happens to every team in the league, I mean look at Randy Moss, sucked in Oakland, did a helluva job in New England. Hall sucked in Oakland, did a good job for us. (And come to think of it, it could be way worst...we could be Oakland)

Alright, I'll go with that.

I think people like to overlook the fact that Gibbs was in some way, shape, or form involved in some of these bad acquisitions. Don't get me wrong, Gibbs did great things for this franchise during his second stint, and I will not overlook that nor am I trying to undermine them. However, a lot things that people like to blame solely on Vinny and Snyder, were done either because of Gibbs or with support. Let's not forget that Snyder gave Gibbs a blank check on decision making, and as it has been stated before, DS or VC would never have gone against Gibbs wishes.

It was a great group of people with everyone getting people they wanted: Gibbs-Brunell, Saunders-Llloyd, Blache-Carter, Bugel-Kendall, Williams-Archuleta. But interestingly enough, Cerrato never really made a huge push for anyone. But it's a new era now, let's see how things turn out.

the clark issue reminds me of the brad johnson-jeff george deal (is this going back to far?). we had a capable guy who wanted to stay with us, we didnt sign him to a reasonable contract, then turn around and pay another less capable guy a boat load of money.

lame post by me, i know . . .

go skins!!

I think people like to overlook the fact that Gibbs was in some way, shape, or form involved in some of these bad acquisitions. Don't get me wrong, Gibbs did great things for this franchise during his second stint, and I will not overlook that nor am I trying to undermine them. However, a lot things that people like to blame solely on Vinny and Snyder, were done either because of Gibbs or with support. Let's not forget that Snyder gave Gibbs a blank check on decision making, and as it has been stated before, DS or VC would never have gone against Gibbs wishes.

If you look back a page, I did exactly that. As for the current roster, I put about 90% of that on Gibbs. He came in with a 3 year plan and left with a 4 year rebuilding project without the trophy to justify it. The further we get from JG 2.0 the less favorably I view his 2nd stint.

Well we also have completely changed the culture within the organization from when Spurrier was here (trust me, it was a disaster). Hopefully, we've got a QB for the next decade.

But I don't want to start getting into another Gibbs debate again. So I'll just leave this topic alone

Well we also have completely changed the culture within the organization from when Spurrier was here (trust me, it was a disaster). Hopefully, we've got a QB for the next decade.

But I don't want to start getting into another Gibbs debate again. So I'll just leave this topic alone

I'm just curious. Under Spurrier, how was personnel aquisition organized? Was it all Dan? Did Vinny run the show? Or was Spurrier basically given a green light for whoever he wanted on offense and defense was just whatever looked good in the papers?

I believe it was a disaster. I am just interested in a) What was the culture that made it so disasterous? b) How did Gibbs change it? c) Even though some of the players remain unchanged (anyone still here from the Spurrier era other than VC?), have the changes Gibbs created taken hold?

I realize it my be too early to tell on (c), but I am curious as to your opionion on it.

I'm just curious. Under Spurrier, how was personnel aquisition organized? Was it all Dan? Did Vinny run the show? Or was Spurrier basically given a green light for whoever he wanted on offense and defense was just whatever looked good in the papers?

I believe it was a disaster. I am just interested in a) What was the culture that made it so disasterous? b) How did Gibbs change it? c) Even though some of the players remain unchanged (anyone still here from the Spurrier era other than VC?), have the changes Gibbs created taken hold?

I realize it my be too early to tell on (c), but I am curious as to your opionion on it.

I think Spurrier pretty much brought in whoever he wanted. I'm a Gator fan, so it pains me to say this, but Danny Weurffel, Shane Matthews, and Jacquez Green were just never going to get it done for us or anyone else. Spurrier also decided that Stephen Davis, who at the time was the single season all-time rushing leader for the Skins, wasn't a "fit," and we let him go in favor of Trung Canidate. It was a pathetic regime to say the least, and it's pretty obvious the Ole Ball Coach had a big say in personnel. Not to mention bringing in a coaching staff full of guys with no NFL experience.

Spurrier had ZERO control over the locker room, and there was no discipline. It was a total trainwreck.

Remember Jansen saying there basically wasn't a weekly gameplan under Spurrier?! :doh: