Police Execution?

This is cold blooded murder. If the kid was squirming it was probably because of unnecessary pain he was put in. It was obvious he was against the wall and cooperating. Why not ask him to stand, put his hands behind his back, etc. Instead they just roll him over and start tugging.

:bump::bump::bump:I BUMPED THIS THREAD SO HOPEFULLY PEOPLE WILL GO TO THE LAST PAGE AND CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION THERE,
THIS HAPPENED IN 2009, not NOV 2010

Absent additional facts, it was a cold-blooded execution and the police officer should be facing murder charges.

As a general matter, let me say that police have a very dangerous job and the overwhelming majority of officers are honorable, competent, well-intentioned, and deserve our respect and thanks. However, I also think there are far too many police officers with poor character, who were motivated to become police officers for the wrong reasons, and who abuse their power. Worse still, I believe a significant minority of police officers are too quick to use physical or deadly force and, all too often, get off with a minor slap on the wirst.

I agree with this whole post. But it is key to say "absent additional facts". In neither video can one see clearly what is happening, and if the victim is taking that long to be cuffed, I promise you he is not cooperating. There are many small dangerous items that he could have started to pull out that threatened these cops. Or it could have been the stupidest, coldest of murders. I doubt that this BART security guy had an intent before the wrestling started to execute a man on a public platform (where undoubtedly surveillance cameras are located as well as two shaky cell phone views, one of which does not show the shooting at all). And chances are he will lose his job, and probably go to jail, but its still awful hard to believe he just came to work hoping for a chance to kill.
Bottomline, I hope the truth (whichever way it falls) comes out, and justice is done(but I doubt that - again - whichever way it falls).

That, if it is how it looks, is just about the most appalling video i've ever watched. I mean that I don't see the kid really thrashing in a struggle - i think the criterion here is whether his behavior could cause death to the officers or a bystander, and it clearly looks as though he could not have - nor does it look like at anytime he reached for a weapon. Indeed if he did not even have a gun on him this is flat out murder.

I'm very derisive of police officers and wouldn't say more except that many have already made similar comments. IMHO all law enforcement officials should be held to the highest standard(s) and thus punishment should be just as sweeping. If that kid didn't have a gun the officer should be executed by a court of law (i want to say publicly executed but for all we know the meatheaded shitsack has a decent family...). The other officers should have stopped him from drawing his weapon and therefor should be fired and barred from ever serving again anywhere.

This is cold blooded murder. If the kid was squirming it was probably because of unnecessary pain he was put in. It was obvious he was against the wall and cooperating. Why not ask him to stand, put his hands behind his back, etc. Instead they just roll him over and start tugging.

So you were there? you know what they told him to do? They had the others handcuffed, logic would say that somehow he was resisting that idea? Maybe when he raised his hands the first time, and was described by an onlooker as saying its ok, is actually when they first attempted to handcuff him, and he pulled his hands back and told the security guards to back off. I was not there, we don't hear the conversation, and clearly the girl was more sympathetic to the fighters than the guards. Go figure.

So you were there? you know what they told him to do? They had the others handcuffed, logic would say that somehow he was resisting that idea? Maybe when he raised his hands the first time, and was described by an onlooker as saying its ok, is actually when they first attempted to handcuff him, and he pulled his hands back and told the security guards to back off. I was not there, we don't hear the conversation, and clearly the girl was more sympathetic to the fighters than the guards. Go figure.

Well, all this may be true and the officer will have his opportunity in court to present any and all explanations. But police kill people a lot in this country, especially minorities, and I think it's sad that so often the burden of proof seems to fall on the guy that got killed. In this case, in which both a witness and a video strongly suggest excessive violence on the part of the police officer, your reaction is to give presumption to the officer, questioning the credibility of the witness and even the video itself.

I think this reaction is far too common - to assume that the victim must have been doing something wrong - and it helps explain the shocking frequency with which police officers walk away from these types of incidents unpunished.

So you were there? you know what they told him to do? They had the others handcuffed, logic would say that somehow he was resisting that idea? Maybe when he raised his hands the first time, and was described by an onlooker as saying its ok, is actually when they first attempted to handcuff him, and he pulled his hands back and told the security guards to back off. I was not there, we don't hear the conversation, and clearly the girl was more sympathetic to the fighters than the guards. Go figure.

R u a cop? As I said the burden of proof from what i understand is the suspect must pose a life-threatening risk to the officers or bystanders to justify lethal force. R u seriously contending anything about that looked life threatening?

Well, all this may be true and the officer will have his opportunity in court to present any and all explanations. But police kill people a lot in this country, especially minorities, and I think it's sad that so often the burden of proof seems to fall on the guy that got killed. In this case, in which both a witness and a video strongly suggest excessive violence on the part of the police officer, your reaction is to give presumption to the officer, questioning the credibility of the witness and even the video itself.

I think this reaction is far too common - to assume that the victim must have been doing something wrong - and it helps explain the shocking frequency with which police officers walk away from these types of incidents unpunished.

Well said. Thank you!!!

R u a cop? As I said the burden of proof from what i understand is the suspect must pose a life-threatening risk to the officers or bystanders to justify lethal force. R u seriously contending anything about that looked life threatening?

I was a military policeman for a few years, and personally I don't really trust or like most cops. That said, from the video presented you don't see the victim clearly, or I couldn't. You can't hear what is said, or what is happening on the ground. Believe me, the burden of proof absolutely lies with the group of security guards. They had 3 men trying to control one man, they will have to show that the victim indeed did have a weapon and was in a position to use it.
My point is that female witness did not see it, she said she was distracted. And that the video that did show the shooting is not clear enough(again no audio, no clear view of the victims hands), and that the victim was resisting. As I said before-
I hope that the truth comes out (whichever way it goes) and that justice is served. I don't have very much faith in our system that either of those two things will happen.

Well, all this may be true and the officer will have his opportunity in court to present any and all explanations. But police kill people a lot in this country, especially minorities, and I think it's sad that so often the burden of proof seems to fall on the guy that got killed. In this case, in which both a witness and a video strongly suggest excessive violence on the part of the police officer, your reaction is to give presumption to the officer, questioning the credibility of the witness and even the video itself.

I think this reaction is far too common - to assume that the victim must have been doing something wrong - and it helps explain the shocking frequency with which police officers walk away from these types of incidents unpunished.

My reaction is to not be knee jerk about it. If the killing was unwarranted he should be treated as a murderer. But to say based on that video that you have the insight of being on the scene is outrageous. The reason a cop gets the benefit of the doubt is simple:
At the start of the incident the guard is not involved in any illegal activity, the victim is. The victim was initially the aggressor. That is why the guard came into contact with him to begin with.

And I would like to know the stats on "police kill lots of people" vs the number of people that interact with police in potentially dangerous situations. Or the "shocking frequency" that they walk away. Those two statements sound more like media/cultural myth then real facts.

Police brutality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_brutality)

While the prevalence of police brutality in the United States is not comprehensively documented, statistics on the use of physical force by law enforcement are available. For example, an extensive U.S. Department of Justice report on police use of force released in 2001 indicated that in 1999, "approximately ]422,000 people 16 years old and older were estimated to have had contact with police in which force or the threat of force was used."[13]

Statistics on police brutality are much less available. The few statistics that exist include a 2006 Department of Justice report, which showed that out of 26,556 citizen complaints about excessive use of police force among large U.S. agencies (representing 5% of agencies and 59% of officers) in 2002, about 2000 were found to have merit.[14]


The whole article is very interesting, and various numbers and statistics provide reasons to be cynical.
I tried to find some sort of statistic that showed the statement "But police kill people a lot in this country" from djnemo65 to be factual, but couldn't. Partly, it depends on your definition of "a lot".
Googling "police brutality statistics" gives several interesting articles.