I guess no one likes VC.

I'd argue it's Snyder that's been the one constant.

VC was outta here under Marty, and again his level of involvement over the years is debatable and is based mostly on speculation which of course is overwhelmingly negative.

We really don't know what moves had his stamp of approval vs. which ones didn't. Up until last year I think it's reasonable to assume it was either Snyder or Gibbs that had final say over the majority of the moves that have been made over the years.

Trying to figure out how to blame VC in all of this is pretty pointless. Let's judge him from last year forward.

I think it's fair to say that we should judge him here forward. So far if we judge him on the Zorn hire and the 08 draft class I'd say it's below average. We've got a draft class that basically did nothing and a coach who had one of the worst offenses in the league and showed no ability to adjust. So far it's not very good.

I think it's fair to say that we should judge him here forward. So far if we judge him on the Zorn hire and the 08 draft class I'd say it's below average. We've got a draft class that basically did nothing and a coach who had one of the worst offenses in the league and showed no ability to adjust. So far it's not very good.

What adjustment could he have possibly made? They haven't yet established a basic foundation. This offseason will give them the time they need to evaluate their talent and make the proper adjustments. Let's not forget this was Zorns rookie year in what must have seemed like a blur to him. All this team needs is to settle in.

Also at 6-2 I don't think they were thinking about plan B

Personally I'm very pleased with Zorn and Co. so far

I think it's fair to say that we should judge him here forward. So far if we judge him on the Zorn hire and the 08 draft class I'd say it's below average. We've got a draft class that basically did nothing and a coach who had one of the worst offenses in the league and showed no ability to adjust. So far it's not very good.

I want Vinny outta here as much as the next guy, but I think youre being a little harsh there:


Vinny wisely chose not to promote Gregg Williams to HC - that would have been a disaster - The guy couldnt even keep the job as DC in Jacksonville.
Vinny stressed continuity, which was much needed given the foundation Gibbs laid here.
Saunders offense was doo-doo. Bringing in Zorn to be the OC/QB coach was a smart move, given Zorns success record developing QBs
Promoting Zorn to HC was a prudent move at the time, considering Jim Fassel and Mooch were the only other men who wanted the job.
We entered the draft with our starters set. The goal in the draft was never to draft rookie starters... it was to draft depth guys who could grow into starting roles in years 2 and beyond. If Thomas and Rinehart are starting in 2009, and Davis and Kelly are contributing more, then Vinny will have succeeded there.
Trading for Jason Taylor - who was coming off a 16sack season - was a brilliant move - praised by EVERYONE in the media at the time. Getting him for a 2nd and 6th rounder was a steal, especially since Taylor vowed to play 2 more years minimum. No one could have guessed a guy who hadnt missed a start in over a decade would suddenly suffer a slew of injury problems.
We wisely remained quiet in free agency last year. There really wasnt anyone out there worth breaking the bank for.
We had every reason to expect a better performance from our offensive line than we got. Vinny can be forgiven for not doing more to address that in the draft. Given how quickly the QB is supposed to throw the ball in the WCO, our OL should have done a much better job than it did.
By all appearances, our plan was to draft atleast 1 Defensive linemen in the 2nd round. Unfortunately for us, Philly and Miami picked guys we were likely targeting right before we made our selections. Sometimes, thats just how things play out.


Vinnys first offseason cannot be judged in one year. Like head coaches and draft picks, GMs need atleast 2-3 years to accurately evaluate. I'm not saying danny shouldnt be seeing what he can do to get guys like Holmgren, Shanahan, Cowher, or Pioli, because they would clearly be upgrades over what we have now, but I also wouldnt throw in the towel on Cerrato for anything less than Pioli or Cowher running the FO.

I think that Danny should seriously take a look at hiring Carl Peterson to replace Vinny. He dosen't have to fire Vinny, just move him to another position.

if we draft the best player available, instead of one for need, ill puke. good teams have that luxury. we are not a good team

I think that Danny should seriously take a look at hiring Carl Peterson to replace Vinny. He dosen't have to fire Vinny, just move him to another position.

No GM would want VInny on his staff. As pointed out elsewhere, theres a reason no NFL team offered him any kind of job when Marty fired him... he simply isnt respected by professionals.

I wonder why nobody likes the guy? He must be a total 100% dick behind closed doors. You have to wonder if Samuels has nothing good to say about you then you must be a dick cause Samuels is a good guy. But you have to wonder why no one wanted him when Marty fired him. Even Casserly got a GM job.

As one of the few, or maybe only, people on this board who has met VC behind closed doors I would say...he comes across as a bit of a jerk. And he's not much of a people person which tends to hurt the organization at times. He's not, contrary to popular belief, a moron. But his people skills are sad.

That is kind of sad to hear that he is actually a dick and doen't just come over as one . I actually don't think Vinny is that bad a football guy, he has been involved in sucess with the 9ers and before in collage .

I think he has been given a bad press in the past because no one really knows what he does and which moves were his .

2008, 2000 and 2002 were the closest you can get to really pin pointing the years that Vinny was the man .

1999 - Charley C and the JKC Estate were in action . They let Trent Green walk and traded a 1,2 & 3 rounds draft picks for a then NFLE journy man Brad Johnson . The draft was saved by the Saints giving up the farm to move up the draft to snag that HoFer Rickey Williams.

2000 - The draft wasn't all bad we parleyed the 3 No1 picks into 2,3 choices overall and got two very good players - Samuels and Arrington . The FA class that had no class was a little more worrying but that had all the hall marks of Dan wanting to play with his new toy as did the firing of Norv while we still had a shot at the playoffs

2001 - Marty .....There was a reason A J Smith was given back the reigns in SD...

2002 - That was an interesting draft . We traded back and back picked up a bunch of extra pics and took Ramsey - (Too soon) and got Betts and a couple of other back ups .

2003 - You could say was a Vinny year but the draft was decimated by all the RFA and player trades and the top overall pick had Spurrriers hand writing all over it . Taylor Jacobs ex gator best practice player in history ...

2004- The first of the Gibbs years .... Gibbs did have quite a say in player acquisition, I am sure everyone remembers Brunell taking Gibbs to hospital with diabetes complications then Woooosh Brunell welcome to Washington . I thought 2004 was a good year for FA. We got Washington, Griffin, Springs, Daniels and the draft was good too (again what was left of it ) Getting Taylor & Cooley. But we also saw a trend of the FO locking onto a player (Cooley) and giving away too much to select him .

2005 - Gibbs and Co again and again we see the willingness to part with draft picks because we locked onto a guy and didn't want to miss him (Campbell) ... The FA was strangely quiet that year though, although much of the available cap space was eaten in the Coles for Moss trade, but still quiet .... the lull before the storm .

2006 - Gibbs and Co and the fractures in the top three (Gibbs, Williams and Saunders) were showing each eager to get their guy . This was possible more indicative of the season . I think this was the year Gibbs was going to start taking a back seat and let Saunders and Williams run the show and 2006 was a test to see how they could co-exisit ... they couldn't ... in the last part of the year Gibbs came back and he was an angry man but by that time although the team played better the damage was done . The draft was rich in LBs, we knew we had no chance at one of the top LBs but again locked on and overpayed for Roger McIntosh . I actually don't think he would have been around when we picked but we should have gone for the BPA and saved the picks .

2007 - There was no way they were going to select another DB in 2007 after selecting one first overall twice over the last 3 years ... I was wrong and as it turned out Landry wasn't a bad pick and we had a short glimpse of what could have been ( the cover 3 and cover 0 could have been something for the history books . No one could pass deap on that secondary - unfortunately as the Pats discovered you didn't need to) until tragedy struck. FA again was quiet more by necessity than anything and other than the Wade experiment that played out poorly and us needing to get help in the shape of Pete Kendall the personnel were classic Gibbs guys no real stars just a good team

2008 - Vinny takes his place at the top of the pile . Now everything rides on him . What is interesting is we had a few guys we were watching in the first round but instead of locking on to one player we traded down and down ... What was interesting about the Thomas pick is he would have been the guy at 21 but the FO ignored him then and traded down, they had no idea WR hungry teams behind us would let him slip further so it seems we didn't believe he had enough value at the end of the 1st . I think we were looking at Merling but he went first pick of the second round and so when Thomas came round again he was the top player on the board .

The Davis pick looks like an interesting one . He was probably the second most impressive rookie out of the 2008 draft . For a converted WR he blocked exceptionally well and improved as the season went on .

Kelly was another guy I think we might have taken earlier if Thomas had not fallen to us but at the end of the second he was the player with possibly the most upside but those knees look to be letting him down ..

...My point is looking at 2008 there is a definite sea change in the way we select the players. There were a few picks that were targeted Davis I think, Tyron and possibly Horton . But we didn't seem to get locked on to one guy as we often did in 2004-2007.


I guess this is my long winded way of saying we should see what Vinny can do and if 2008 was a one off or if it really is a change of direction now Vinny is the undisputed power .

That is kind of sad to hear that he is actually a dick and doen't just come over as one . I actually don't think Vinny is that bad a football guy, he has been involved in sucess with the 9ers and before in collage .

I think he has been given a bad press in the past because no one really knows what he does and which moves were his .

2008, 2000 and 2002 were the closest you can get to really pin pointing the years that Vinny was the man .

1999 - Charley C and the JKC Estate were in action . They let Trent Green walk and traded a 1,2 & 3 rounds draft picks for a then NFLE journy man Brad Johnson . The draft was saved by the Saints giving up the farm to move up the draft to snag that HoFer Rickey Williams.

2000 - The draft wasn't all bad we parleyed the 3 No1 picks into 2,3 choices overall and got two very good players - Samuels and Arrington . The FA class that had no class was a little more worrying but that had all the hall marks of Dan wanting to play with his new toy as did the firing of Norv while we still had a shot at the playoffs

2001 - Marty .....There was a reason A J Smith was given back the reigns in SD...

2002 - That was an interesting draft . We traded back and back picked up a bunch of extra pics and took Ramsey - (Too soon) and got Betts and a couple of other back ups .

2003 - You could say was a Vinny year but the draft was decimated by all the RFA and player trades and the top overall pick had Spurrriers hand writing all over it . Taylor Jacobs ex gator best practice player in history ...

2004- The first of the Gibbs years .... Gibbs did have quite a say in player acquisition, I am sure everyone remembers Brunell taking Gibbs to hospital with diabetes complications then Woooosh Brunell welcome to Washington . I thought 2004 was a good year for FA. We got Washington, Griffin, Springs, Daniels and the draft was good too (again what was left of it ) Getting Taylor & Cooley. But we also saw a trend of the FO locking onto a player (Cooley) and giving away too much to select him .

2005 - Gibbs and Co again and again we see the willingness to part with draft picks because we locked onto a guy and didn't want to miss him (Campbell) ... The FA was strangely quiet that year though, although much of the available cap space was eaten in the Coles for Moss trade, but still quiet .... the lull before the storm .

2006 - Gibbs and Co and the fractures in the top three (Gibbs, Williams and Saunders) were showing each eager to get their guy . This was possible more indicative of the season . I think this was the year Gibbs was going to start taking a back seat and let Saunders and Williams run the show and 2006 was a test to see how they could co-exisit ... they couldn't ... in the last part of the year Gibbs came back and he was an angry man but by that time although the team played better the damage was done . The draft was rich in LBs, we knew we had no chance at one of the top LBs but again locked on and overpayed for Roger McIntosh . I actually don't think he would have been around when we picked but we should have gone for the BPA and saved the picks .

2007 - There was no way they were going to select another DB in 2007 after selecting one first overall twice over the last 3 years ... I was wrong and as it turned out Landry wasn't a bad pick and we had a short glimpse of what could have been ( the cover 3 and cover 0 could have been something for the history books . No one could pass deap on that secondary - unfortunately as the Pats discovered you didn't need to) until tragedy struck. FA again was quiet more by necessity than anything and other than the Wade experiment that played out poorly and us needing to get help in the shape of Pete Kendall the personnel were classic Gibbs guys no real stars just a good team

2008 - Vinny takes his place at the top of the pile . Now everything rides on him . What is interesting is we had a few guys we were watching in the first round but instead of locking on to one player we traded down and down ... What was interesting about the Thomas pick is he would have been the guy at 21 but the FO ignored him then and traded down, they had no idea WR hungry teams behind us would let him slip further so it seems we didn't believe he had enough value at the end of the 1st . I think we were looking at Merling but he went first pick of the second round and so when Thomas came round again he was the top player on the board .

The Davis pick looks like an interesting one . He was probably the second most impressive rookie out of the 2008 draft . For a converted WR he blocked exceptionally well and improved as the season went on .

Kelly was another guy I think we might have taken earlier if Thomas had not fallen to us but at the end of the second he was the player with possibly the most upside but those knees look to be letting him down ..

...My point is looking at 2008 there is a definite sea change in the way we select the players. There were a few picks that were targeted Davis I think, Tyron and possibly Horton . But we didn't seem to get locked on to one guy as we often did in 2004-2007.


I guess this is my long winded way of saying we should see what Vinny can do and if 2008 was a one off or if it really is a change of direction now Vinny is the undisputed power .

Solid recap. One theme I noticed was it seems like especially during the Gibbs/Vinny years, the front office locked onto the player they wanted (examples, Brunell, Lloyd, Archuleta, McIntosh, Campbell) and made sacrifices-sometimes unnecessarily, in order to 'get their man'. It seems like last year Vinny did the same thing with Thomas and Kelly but was more patient and the draft just kind of fell that way. It will be interesting to see next year, assuming a fully healthy training camp, how Thomas, Davis and Kelly develop and see if his patience was rewarded.

There's not much to like about the Snyder/Cerrato combination. Snyder is an impulsive moron when it comes to football, and Cerrato is his yes man. It's a bad combination. I don't have much hope that the Redskins will recover as a franchise until either they're both gone or Snyder hires a real football GM and leaves him alone.

Also, Cerrato recently said that we don't really need to change much this offseason. Really? That just baffles me. He's an idiot if he thinks that we're close to competing for a Superbowl and he's just delaying the inevitable if we continue the patch a hole here, patch a hole there for eternity. This team is not even close to being in a state where a few tweaks will fix it.