when will they ever learn???

Considering Portis was leading the league in rushing coming into the game today I think Zorn is well aware of the importance of running the ball. The key is to be effective in running the ball, and we simply could not get that going today. Give the Giants credit.

It's the formula for beating us if their DL is better than our OL.

The Giant's continue to be the best team in the NFL. No shame in our lose today.

They tried to run but we had the Barry Sanders diease..Each running play he's being hit in the backfield before he hits the hole.

Terrible suggestion. But please it is brilliant if you head to either Dallas or NY or any team we are about to play b/c that is unsound advice if I chose to degrade the word advice.

Heres my suggestion to go back in time with....

If we wanted to be able to run against a team determined to stop our run its
simple Pass, Spread them out too. Giants are weakest in coverage. Thats why slants were called, but they were dropped-. If we were airing it out thats the time when we should draw. Instead Zorn would call draws or screens before we had them on their heels. Nothing deep was establiished. Teams would rather stack 7-8 b/c there is a better chance our OL breaks down, Campbell gets sacked, or our receivers won't make a play.
We do the same thing but we have faith in our DB's other teams are not that fortunate but we "Let them off the hook Denny Green" by not capitalizing when we have the ball. LET THEM GET FLAGGED FOR TOO MANY MEN ON THE FIELD. THEY CAN'T PUT 7-8 IN THE BOX IF WE HAVE 4 WIDE EVEN 4 WIDE AND COOLEY GOING OUT But when they do we choose to run anyhow and Its like I just read you say that is what we sshould be doing so I guess your upset b/c we didn't lose bad enough....I don't share those motives, I'd rather win.

So, your suggesting we just run think run Run team.
Well, when we are trailing and the game is winding down and we know we have no air attack we play into their hands on 3rd and longs b/c we have to pass, its too obvious, our WR's are doubled teamed. Running with guys in the box plays into their favor and suddenly our secret weapon of Sellers backfires and time gets away and we still punt before midfield.

I think ultimately you mean when we are winning and control the clock and can still keep the run game going its a great thing.

Take it back a few years, think of constant shuffles and poor productivity with Coaches,Cordinators,systems,QB's,and personal, i.e. Brunell's 5 yard vision, Ramsey sack issues, all the past pathetic WR's and teams live in the box and stack the line
Factor in NY DL needs no help, so 7-8 is more lethal something we have not on our team in effectiveness. Plus, Spagnolo can do his packages and trickery like we used to have with GWilliams or has Blatche's pure vanilla wiped all memory too?


Today was just all around bad. We are not a good team. Our season is over so the only matters now is that Sean is honored in the ring and we have the suffer the rest.wow thats long

whatever you want to think, thats fine. heres the whole argument, if you run the first two downs and its 3rd and 8 even, which is often at worst when we run on the first two downs, that is better than 3 and 8 after having passed on one of the first two downs....the reasoning behind that is this, the running game is process of wearing someone down. how many times do you hear that a running back is better in the 4th quarter? all the time. you stick with what works, maybe not play to play, but what has worked in the past and the present....thats running the football even if at certain times it doesnt look good, cause it only takes one to put the defense on skates....i would rather put the game in our oline and clinton portis's (or any of our backs) hands than in our oline and jason campbells hands...JC hasnt done anything in 2 and half years to prove he is worthy of that burden.

spreading them out? are you serious, when your qb is not a threat it does nothing......oh and we spread them out on that 4th and 1 play too, didnt work. rules on running short yardage, dont ever give it to the first guy through and always create a tight formation....reasons for this are long but all in all if you are relying on tricking people to get a yard then you dont need to call plays. didnt fool the giants wont fool the ravens.

balance? i agree to this but i believe balance for us comes after we have established at least a seed that we dont care if you stuff us we will run the ball again and again....then you can throw off that, its not throw to set up the run, thats for college football. its run to set up the pass. if you run consistently (attempts more than yards) your pass will be much better, esspecially given our QB and his delievery time.....he needs more time or we need a new qb, no offensive line could consistently block for campbell right now, i think hes not making quick decisions.

whatever you want to think, thats fine. heres the whole argument, if you run the first two downs and its 3rd and 8 even, which is often at worst when we run on the first two downs, that is better than 3 and 8 after having passed on one of the first two downs....the reasoning behind that is this, the running game is process of wearing someone down. how many times do you hear that a running back is better in the 4th quarter? all the time. you stick with what works, maybe not play to play, but what has worked in the past and the present....thats running the football even if at certain times it doesnt look good, cause it only takes one to put the defense on skates....i would rather put the game in our oline and clinton portis's (or any of our backs) hands than in our oline and jason campbells hands...JC hasnt done anything in 2 and half years to prove he is worthy of that burden.

spreading them out? are you serious, when your qb is not a threat it does nothing......oh and we spread them out on that 4th and 1 play too, didnt work. rules on running short yardage, dont ever give it to the first guy through and always create a tight formation....reasons for this are long but all in all if you are relying on tricking people to get a yard then you dont need to call plays. didnt fool the giants wont fool the ravens.

balance? i agree to this but i believe balance for us comes after we have established at least a seed that we dont care if you stuff us we will run the ball again and again....then you can throw off that, its not throw to set up the run, thats for college football. its run to set up the pass. if you run consistently (attempts more than yards) your pass will be much better, esspecially given our QB and his delievery time.....he needs more time or we need a new qb, no offensive line could consistently block for campbell right now, i think hes not making quick decisions.I understand what you're sayin' here, holc, and it seems logical.

But none of it is actually true, or if it is, there's no evidence to make me think it would be. Ineffective running isn't wearing anyone down when compared to say, effective passing. You've got to adjust to the defense and attack where they are weak.

whatever you want to think, thats fine. heres the whole argument, if you run the first two downs and its 3rd and 8 even, which is often at worst when we run on the first two downs, that is better than 3 and 8 after having passed on one of the first two downs....the reasoning behind that is this, the running game is process of wearing someone down. how many times do you hear that a running back is better in the 4th quarter? all the time. you stick with what works, maybe not play to play, but what has worked in the past and the present....thats running the football even if at certain times it doesnt look good, cause it only takes one to put the defense on skates....i would rather put the game in our oline and clinton portis's (or any of our backs) hands than in our oline and jason campbells hands...JC hasnt done anything in 2 and half years to prove he is worthy of that burden.

spreading them out? are you serious, when your qb is not a threat it does nothing......oh and we spread them out on that 4th and 1 play too, didnt work. rules on running short yardage, dont ever give it to the first guy through and always create a tight formation....reasons for this are long but all in all if you are relying on tricking people to get a yard then you dont need to call plays. didnt fool the giants wont fool the ravens.

balance? i agree to this but i believe balance for us comes after we have established at least a seed that we dont care if you stuff us we will run the ball again and again....then you can throw off that, its not throw to set up the run, thats for college football. its run to set up the pass. if you run consistently (attempts more than yards) your pass will be much better, esspecially given our QB and his delievery time.....he needs more time or we need a new qb, no offensive line could consistently block for campbell right now, i think hes not making quick decisions.


Hahaha, again you make the case to be 1 dimensional. But hey I wouldn't expect someone lacking knowledge to be insightful. You seem to be standing firm that we should adopt Redskin football before Slingin' Sammy and only run....Well, I guess to not expect much roundtable from you in the future. Way to break the atom and further humanity. Run the ball... why even have WR's?? We will have a stable of RB's...I'm putting you on my friends list b/c you will have me wetting myself all day long. You the next George Carlin.

I understand what you're sayin' here, holc, and it seems logical.

But none of it is actually true, or if it is, there's no evidence to make me think it would be. Ineffective running isn't wearing anyone down when compared to say, effective passing. You've got to adjust to the defense and attack where they are weak.

Again, I think he means to express when we are winning games and the run game is unbeatble he WISHES it was like that all the time b/c it is a good thing to watch and celebrate.

This is the most foolish discussion that I am even more interested to see how far his Rabbit hole goes.

2009 Skins = Bugel promoted to Head Coach and 9 RB's. We'll run our way to the Super Bowl. That would be great if it was 1940 or so........

I agree that running the league leading rusher for only 11 times on a team with a struggling passing attack is a poor game planning.

(and dont give me any of that we ran because we were behind BS, we bailed on the run early, or it was never our game plan to begin with)

You play to win with your strengths, not your weaknesses...especially against the best team in the league.

I dont care if they can stop the run....you make a statement, trust your power running game and try to beat them with your strength...yes, you will need to be balanced but to give up running by halftime in a one score game at home is stupid.

We need to realize we are a solid running team with a below average passing attack.
Teams will attack our running game, so....we need to game plan our running game and supporting passing game accordingly, otherwise, the opposing defenses dictate our playcalling, and That is a recipe for disaster.

A lot of this is about ATTITUDE and Confidence of a Head Coach.
It takes guts to run 30 times against the Gmen.

Call me an idiot if we run 30 times against Baltimore and lose.

I think you all are wrong. lol. just kidding. I wanna come up with some lame excuses the team tries sometimes and some we have used year after year....

1. Terrible exacution. LOL.
2. JC is a right hander. LOL.
3. The O-line is not used to the WCO. LOL
4. Pass blocking in Gibbs system is different then Zorns. LOL.
5. New coach. LOL.
6. New system yet again. LOL.

We need new excuses unless you all like to keep recycling the old ones. Maybe we can "copy and paste."
How about we all agree offensive tactics are to attack the weakness of the opposing defense. If they stack the box you have to pass to back up the defense in order to find running lanes. If they stop the pass by backing up and changing personell for pass coverage you run the ball. Now that we can all agree we also need to agree that two things need to happen.
1. QB needs to get the ball out in about 3-5 seconds.
2. O-line needs to give him time to do it.

Simply put...JC was holding the ball to long. Perhaps he's waiting for a WR to be standing out on an island all by himself. I don't know. Part of the problems I keep reading especially from some who were at the game is JC locks on to one WR. Apparently he does not know yet to throw a pass to the right you have to stare down the WR to the left first. Make the defense run to that side of the field. Same goes for the opposite side of the field. I keep hearing how he does't use the check down....he was early in the season cause some of you were complaining that he checks down to Cooley to much and won't throw beyond 5-10 yrds.
Someone mentioned something I stated earlier....JC said on TV/Radio he does not believe in just throwing the ball down field unless it's there. But you have to. You have to throw the ball even if it is a throw over everyones head out of bounds. It stretches the defense and causes them to back up to defend it if they know you will or might go long once and a while. Call it what you want...a ruse or whatever but the defense has to be worried about it. When for 3 games or more you only throw 5-10 yrd passes the defense has nothing to worry about. Other teams see we can't throw long effectively so they sit 15 yrds out and stack the box.

Again, I think he means to express when we are winning games and the run game is unbeatble he WISHES it was like that all the time b/c it is a good thing to watch and celebrate.

This is the most foolish discussion that I am even more interested to see how far his Rabbit hole goes.

2009 Skins = Bugel promoted to Head Coach and 9 RB's. We'll run our way to the Super Bowl. That would be great if it was 1940 or so........

glad i can get a laugh out of you, really. i dont mind you questioning my football IQ, but lets point this out......in your balanced attack are you achieving balance by calling pass, run, pass, run........with every team they do something well, then achieve balance by doing that first to make what they dont do as well, easier.........PATS last year came out throwing until you could stop it or not, they didnt come out running the ball. jacksonville last year, ran no matter how many you put in the box, 8 or 9 guys.......i am not saying be "one demensional" i am saying achieve balance by setting up the run until it makes it easier to pass....so if you believe number 17 can go win us a game, more power to you and i hope you are right......but in 2 and half years he hasnt shown that.....run the ball until your blue in the face before you give up on it because its what we do best.....then watch how much better 17 looks.