Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

I think we all just want to shape the world in which we live to some extent. Some of us have feelings/beliefs that compel us to say this or that should not be allowed, others extol an "anything but violence goes" philosophy. It's pretty clearly a prejudice, which I'm using in the sense of "a preconceived judgment or opinion," (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prejudice) to say that homosexuality is wrong. That said, all prejudices aren't necessarily incorrect or built upon ignorance. I believe people hold this prejudice because our society has largely taught since it's inception that these alternative lifestyles are wrong. That view point has helped shape our culture to this point in time. Revoking that view likewise changes the culture of our society going forward and not in a way in which the current majority (http://www.gallup.com/poll/118378/majority-americans-continue-oppose-gay-marriage.aspx) seems to desire. I don't think it's as simple as "what two people do in their bedroom is their business" because there are collateral effects which impede on the wishes of most Americans, i.e. the inclusion of homosexuality in elementary education (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,521209,00.html).

I think the crux of the debate is does a society have a right to establish social guidelines and thus enforce said guidelines on a dissenting minority? That's a hell of a hard argument to make from a logical standpoint, much easier from an emotional one. In the end, the point is moot, people can object all they want but evidence shows this fight is just about ove (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20007144-503544.html)r...

just my :twocents:

I sense a transformation in your take on the whole thing since this thread started. Is that a fair assessment?

A sick society is just like a sick animal. It doesn't matter if it is a big strong animal like an elephant. The stronger, more aggressive, beasts smell weakness and feed off the dying. I just wish it wasn't my country that was being eaten.

It isn't us that is sick. Change and progress is good. Hope and fear not so much.

It isn't us that is sick. Change and progress is good. Hope and fear not so much.

I don't agree with TTE at all on this deal but this statement is what kills me about the liberal mindset on this. You don't get that a fair majority of the population doesn't see this change as progress at all. They see it as rotting. Essentially the opposite of progress. That's a major disconnect in the discussion.

I don't agree with TTE at all on this deal but this statement is what kills me about the liberal mindset on this. You don't get that a fair majority of the population doesn't see this change as progress at all. They see it as rotting. Essentially the opposite of progress. That's a major disconnect in the discussion.

It is but a symptom of the rot. Natural law has been supplanted with corruption.

I don't agree with TTE at all on this deal but this statement is what kills me about the liberal mindset on this. You don't get that a fair majority of the population doesn't see this change as progress at all. They see it as rotting. Essentially the opposite of progress. That's a major disconnect in the discussion.

Whether the population as a whole sees it as progress is immaterial to whether it's progress. I get that people are upset but I don't believe it's a majority anymore. Homosexuality use to be punishable by death, now it is not. It use to be something to be feared/rejected and now it isn't as feared/rejected. This is progress whether you and others see it as such or not.

Advocates for gay rights need to change people's attitude towards gays and the court system is one of many tools to exert social influence. We aren't there yet but we will be in a decade or so and people's attitudes will change...they have to in order to cope with the stress of living in a society where gays are in your face.

Whether the population as a whole sees it as progress is immaterial to whether it's progress. I get that people are upset but I don't believe it's a majority anymore. Homosexuality use to be punishable by death, now it is not. It use to be something to be feared/rejected and now it isn't as feared/rejected. This is progress whether you and others see it as such or not.

Advocates for gay rights need to change people's attitude towards gays and the court system is one of many tools to exert social influence. We aren't there yet but we will be in a decade or so and people's attitudes will change...they have to in order to cope with the stress of living in a society where gays are in your face.
In this instance, this is soley your opinion and no more definitive of "progress" than any other....opinion. And, I imagine not shared by many others with........opinions.

In this instance, this is soley your opinion and no more definitive of "progress" than any other....opinion. And, I imagine not shared by many others with........opinions.
This is a terrible post...you should reevaluate it.

This is a terrible post...you should reevaluate it.
I could restate it to...help you understand??

I sense a transformation in your take on the whole thing since this thread started. Is that a fair assessment?

Meh... I still feel the way I feel about it. I don't like it, but at some point you have to recognize the direction things are heading in and move forward. You can't be for personal freedom and support the suppression of the rights of others, without being a colossal hypocrite. Personally, I think acceptance and glorification of the gay lifestyle is something I wouldn't want around my kids (don't have any yet) and that I find extremely distasteful, but you have to adapt. C'est la vie.

Teaching kids acceptance is so overrated anyway