|
|
KLHJ2 08-21-2008, 12:59 PM Not to pee in your cheerios angry, but Moss ranked 39th last year (in normal leagues) as a fantasy WR. He ranked 46th in TD leagues.
Also, he is projected to be the 31st best WR this year according to different magazines.
Being projected 31st and being ranked 39th / 46th last year means he should be a 3rd wr at best for your team. (considering most leagues are made up of 10-14 teams)
Fortunately, the best players in the NFL arent decided by the stats from one season. Name 31 other recievers that made the Pro Bowl in the passed 3 seasons.
jsarno 08-21-2008, 01:21 PM Fortunately, the best players in the NFL arent decided by the stats from one season. Name 31 other recievers that made the Pro Bowl in the passed 3 seasons.
No, they are judged by what they do over the course of each game, and multiple seasons. You don't look at a player from 3 years ago and say he's a stud now unless he was consistant over those 3 years.
FYI- Moss was 26th in td leagues in 06, 30th in normal leagues in 06.
He has not been a "pro bowler" or a #1 wr since 05. I'm not going to do the math, but I am betting that there are well over 30 players with stats better than Moss' over that 2 year span. Your comment of pro bowl wr's does not hold water due to the fact that was 3 years ago. No one is saying he wasn't great in 05, but he has fallen...and fallen far!
ps- Rod Smith was a pro bowler in 05, does that mean he should be a #1 wr??? By your comment / logic he should be, and we both know that would be crazy to say.
ps- if you can count what happened 3 years ago, why not count 04 when he had only 45 catches for 838 yards????
Saying he's a #1 wr when he has AVERAGED 58 catches, and 799 yards over the past 2 years...well that means we should get another #1. Those numbers are terrible for a #1.
Consistancy is the key.
KLHJ2 08-21-2008, 01:32 PM No, they are judged by what they do over the course of each game, and multiple seasons. You don't look at a player from 3 years ago and say he's a stud now unless he was consistant over those 3 years.
FYI- Moss was 26th in td leagues in 06, 30th in normal leagues in 06.
He has not been a "pro bowler" or a #1 wr since 05. I'm not going to do the math, but I am betting that there are well over 30 players with stats better than Moss' over that 2 year span. Your comment of pro bowl wr's does not hold water due to the fact that was 3 years ago. No one is saying he wasn't great in 05, but he has fallen...and fallen far!
ps- Rod Smith was a pro bowler in 05, does that mean he should be a #1 wr??? By your comment / logic he should be, and we both know that would be crazy to say.
ps- if you can count what happened 3 years ago, why not count 04 when he had only 45 catches for 838 yards????
Saying he's a #1 wr when he has AVERAGED 58 catches, and 799 yards over the past 2 years...well that means we should get another #1. Those numbers are terrible for a #1.
Consistancy is the key.
Look, ask yourself this "How many teams could Moss start for"? "How many teams could he be the number 1 for?" Without exact numbers and based on ability, the answer is "the majority of NFL teams".
I am not talking about stats and all of the other hoopla. Of coarse Moss doesn't have great stats. He was in a shit system with sub-par QB play (nothing against Campbell, Gibbs or Saunders).
If you do want to include numbers, then Moss's YPC speak volumes. He is a game breaker with the ball in his hands (you just gotta get it there first). I am not saying that he is the best, but definately top 30 based on ability, not stats.
jsarno 08-21-2008, 01:33 PM Fortunately, the best players in the NFL arent decided by the stats from one season. Name 31 other recievers that made the Pro Bowl in the passed 3 seasons.
I can name all the WR's that performed better than him each of the past two years. (albeit some are just slightly)
(in no particular order)
1- Harrison
2- Driver
3- Chad Johnson
4- Wayne
5- Holt
6- Owens
7- Roy Williams
8- Steve Smith
9- Lee Evans
10- Andre Johnson
11- Houshmandzadeh
12- Coles
13- Furrey
14- Javon Walker
15- Colston
16- Boldin
17- Galloway
18- Burress
19- Darryl Jackson
20- Glenn
21- Cotchery
22- Ward
23- Bruce
24- Fitzgerald
25- Mark Clayton
26- Wes Welker
27- Braylon Edwards
28- Reggie Brown
29- Muhammad
30- Randy Moss
31- Brandon Marshall
32- Curtis
33- White
34- Bobby Engram
35- Burleson
36- Mason
37- Jennings
38- Bowe
39- Holmes
40- McDonald
41- Berrian
42- Chambers
43- Walter
44- Crayton
Please note, I am not saying that all these wr's I would take over Moss, just saying they all performed better.
I wish we could live in the 3 years ago, but we can't. I sincerely hope that Moss will be in 05 form this year too...but all signs point to very doubtful.
KLHJ2 08-21-2008, 01:38 PM I can name all the WR's that performed better than him each of the past two years. (albeit some are just slightly)
(in no particular order)
1- Harrison
2- Driver
3- Chad Johnson
4- Wayne
5- Holt
6- Owens
7- Roy Williams
8- Steve Smith
9- Lee Evans
10- Andre Johnson
11- Houshmandzadeh
12- Coles
13- Furrey
14- Javon Walker
15- Colston
16- Boldin
17- Galloway
18- Burress
19- Darryl Jackson
20- Glenn
21- Cotchery
22- Ward
23- Bruce
24- Fitzgerald
25- Mark Clayton
26- Wes Welker
27- Braylon Edwards
28- Reggie Brown
29- Muhammad
30- Randy Moss
31- Brandon Marshall
32- Curtis
33- White
34- Bobby Engram
35- Burleson
36- Mason
37- Jennings
38- Bowe
39- Holmes
40- McDonald
41- Berrian
42- Chambers
43- Walter
44- Crayton
Please note, I am not saying that all these wr's I would take over Moss, just saying they all performed better.
I wish we could live in the 3 years ago, but we can't. I sincerely hope that Moss will be in 05 form this year too...but all signs point to very doubtful.
I hope so as well, but I am curious about what signs make his return to "Pro Bowl form" doubtfull. Be sure to read post 13 as well. I don't think you saw it.
GhettoDogAllStars 08-21-2008, 01:46 PM Moss is a #1 wideout in the NFL, regardless of his stats. He's very fast, runs great routes, and has good hands. His stats are down, because of our QB situation the past few years. If Moss had Manning or Brady throwing to him, he'd set the world on fire.
Moss in fantasy football has hardly even been a good #3. That is because of his stats -- the only thing that matter in FF. However, I still blame that on our QB situation.
This year, Moss is poised to do much better in FF. We have more receiving threats, our passing attack looks like it will be more aggressive, and Campbell has one more year of experience. That said, I was targeting him in my draft, but he was taken too early. Go figure.
jsarno 08-21-2008, 01:48 PM Look, ask yourself this "How many teams could Moss start for"? "How many teams could he be the number 1 for?" Without exact numbers and based on ability, the answer is "the majority of NFL teams".
I am not talking about stats and all of the other hoopla. Of coarse Moss doesn't have great stats. He was in a shit system with sub-par QB play (nothing against Campbell, Gibbs or Saunders).
If you do want to include numbers, then Moss's YPC speak volumes. He is a game breaker with the ball in his hands (you just gotta get it there first). I am not saying that he is the best, but definately top 30 based on ability, not stats.
Saying he is a top 30 is not saying much for him. I actually think he has top 15 talent...maybe better...but he never stays healthy, and he doesn't produce like he should including drops.
Moss YPC was 13.2 in 06 which ranked 54th in the NFL (10 or more receptions), in 07 Moss YPC was 14.4 which ranked 45th in the NFL (10 or more receptions).
So to say he is a game breaker is not really accurate anymore. He was in 05, he has fallen in 06 and 07.
How many teams could Moss start for...most of them. But all teams start a min. of 2 wr's. How many would he be #1 on, just a couple at best. But that speaks more to those teams than it does to Moss. Randle El could be a #1 in Tennessee, does that mean he should be our #1? In Arizona last year, Moss would have been a 3, possibly 4. Same in Indy, and in NE.
You are basing your opinions on ability...and I'll agree with you, he has a lot of talent...but there are PLENTY of players that come through the NFL that do not let their talent come to fruition. Talent means only so much when you're not being consistant or producing. You HAVE to judge on productivity! It's not like he's a rookie or anything.
jsarno 08-21-2008, 01:59 PM I hope so as well, but I am curious about what signs make his return to "Pro Bowl form" doubtfull. Be sure to read post 13 as well. I don't think you saw it.
It just took a while to post all those wr's, so I hadn't seen it at that point.
The drops are a huge sign for me, as well as we just drafted 3 players that should take away chances 2 of whom will fight to eventually be #1. Also, he has played in a full season exactly 1 time. (no surprise 05). Another sign is that Moss didn't "wake up" until Collins was his QB, he didn't build any chemistry with Campbell.
We certainly agree on talent...Moss has a bunch. But I don't trust that he'll be reliable right now...especially when he's had only 2 seasons that would be considered "good". (he's entering into his 8th season)
He is certainly capable if that is a point you're trying to make. But what happens if he slips on a bananna peel in week 3? The man is constantly on the injury report. There are PLENTY of wr's out there that are capable of being #1, but only a handful will actually produce like a #1.
I see your optimism, and with this new system, Moss could break out again, and for the Skins sake, I hope he does. I'll still wear his jersey!
4thGenRedskin21 08-21-2008, 02:48 PM Moss has been a product of teams putting double coverage and rolling coverage on Moss because lack of other WR's on our team. This year, teams will have a harder time doing that because all of our WR's have GREAT speed and if they double Moss, they will get burned by someone else. Aso, I agree that Moss needs to do something else this year to make sure he stays healthy. a WR should not be having heel problems or anything that effects his running ability or catching ability, that hurts a wideout ALOT.
Moss is still young and still has plenty left in the tank, and if Moss doesnt return to form this year nad next, it's most likely he wont be. I have actually heard Moss has some of the best hands alot of people have ever seen, and that even though he's small, he will go across the middle and make a catch in traffic. You're crazy if you say Santana is not a true #1.. QB play effects the WR just as the OLine effects the Run game directly. If Santana makes a couple of those catches that he drops and if he doesnt get over thrown a few times from Jason then his stats would be VERY different. I'm willing to bet anyone that Santana will be a top 10 WR this year. We have Chris Cooley,Fred Davis,ARE,Kelly,Davis, and etc (all with breakway speed) what teams have a good enoug hsecondary to double team any player on our offense? Santana will have over 1,200+receiving yards and 9+ TD's
jsarno 08-21-2008, 02:56 PM Moss has been a product of teams putting double coverage and rolling coverage on Moss because lack of other WR's on our team. This year, teams will have a harder time doing that because all of our WR's have GREAT speed and if they double Moss, they will get burned by someone else. Aso, I agree that Moss needs to do something else this year to make sure he stays healthy. a WR should not be having heel problems or anything that effects his running ability or catching ability, that hurts a wideout ALOT.
Moss is still young and still has plenty left in the tank, and if Moss doesnt return to form this year nad next, it's most likely he wont be. I have actually heard Moss has some of the best hands alot of people have ever seen, and that even though he's small, he will go across the middle and make a catch in traffic.
I agreed with you up to this point for the most part.
You're crazy if you say Santana is not a true #1..
Hello world, I'm crazy!
ps- it's likely the other way around, but whatever.
QB play effects the WR just as the OLine effects the Run game directly. If Santana makes a couple of those catches that he drops
You are right in saying that a QB does matter...however, his drops were 100% HIS fault.
and if he doesnt get over thrown a few times from Jason then his stats would be VERY different.
Everyone gets overthrown. You could also say, if Moss didn't catch some of those difficult to slightly difficult balls things would look A LOT worse. It's funny how we skins fans always see the glass as overflowing instead of half full. If we like someone, we go to the extreme.
I'm willing to bet anyone that Santana will be a top 10 WR this year.
Holy crap...I need some money if you're giving it away.
|