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Schneed10 07-16-2008, 09:44 AM I don't want to get too far off topic here but I think Collins is one of those guys that was just kind of forgotten about over the course of his career for whatever reason. Based on what we saw last year he's certainly got what it takes to play QB in this league. Had someone in front of him gotten injured and he got a shot earlier in his career things could have wound up much different for him. At least there's not much mileage on his tires so he's a 'young' 36.
I would agree with this. If nothing else, Collins showed last year that he has completely mastered the Saunders offense. In 10 years he never got a significant chance to play. But it stands to reason that had he gotten that shot, he would have displayed the same mastery he did when he played for us last season.
However, I do agree with Jsarno when he says that Saunders is no longer the coordinator, which does render last year's performance irrelevant to a certain degree. You can only be confident in Collins as a backup this season if you're confident that he can master the Zorn offense quickly and as effectively as he knew the Saunders offense.
Collins does not have a strong arm. He can't wait for guys to come open. He had to throw before guys made their break. The only way he could do this was by innately knowing when guys were about to break off a route. Is he going to know when Zorn's receivers are going to break their routes, or will he need to hold the ball to be sure they're breaking? And if he does hold the ball, can his arm get the ball into spots where DBs are breaking in response to the WR's move?
One thing Collins has going for him is he's a vet. He's intelligent and will not make rookie mistakes. But, if we have to use him, I'd worry about his ability to make all the throws, because I don't think he can anticipate the breaks in this offense yet. I'd worry about seeing a Mark Brunell year. Very low INTs, but rarely any risks taken because of a lack of confidence in the arm.
But whatever, because Campbell is going to play all 16 because his line's going to be healthy and will protect him well.
GoSkins! 07-16-2008, 11:12 AM I would agree with this. If nothing else, Collins showed last year that he has completely mastered the Saunders offense. In 10 years he never got a significant chance to play. But it stands to reason that had he gotten that shot, he would have displayed the same mastery he did when he played for us last season.
However, I do agree with Jsarno when he says that Saunders is no longer the coordinator, which does render last year's performance irrelevant to a certain degree. You can only be confident in Collins as a backup this season if you're confident that he can master the Zorn offense quickly and as effectively as he knew the Saunders offense.
Collins does not have a strong arm. He can't wait for guys to come open. He had to throw before guys made their break. The only way he could do this was by innately knowing when guys were about to break off a route. Is he going to know when Zorn's receivers are going to break their routes, or will he need to hold the ball to be sure they're breaking? And if he does hold the ball, can his arm get the ball into spots where DBs are breaking in response to the WR's move?
One thing Collins has going for him is he's a vet. He's intelligent and will not make rookie mistakes. But, if we have to use him, I'd worry about his ability to make all the throws, because I don't think he can anticipate the breaks in this offense yet. I'd worry about seeing a Mark Brunell year. Very low INTs, but rarely any risks taken because of a lack of confidence in the arm.
But whatever, because Campbell is going to play all 16 because his line's going to be healthy and will protect him well.
While I do agree with you about him learning a new offense, why does everyone seem to forget about the fact that he does not have to "re-learn" how to read defenses. It seems like that would be the hardest part at the NFL level. If defenses don't confuse him, he should be able to run the passing part (remember the running part is the same) pretty well. In other words running the offense from QB involves the passing game, running game, and reading defenses. Two of the three have not changed.
While I do agree with you about him learning a new offense, why does everyone seem to forget about the fact that he does not have to "re-learn" how to read defenses. It seems like that would be the hardest part at the NFL level. If defenses don't confuse him, he should be able to run the passing part (remember the running part is the same) pretty well. In other words running the offense from QB involves the passing game, running game, and reading defenses. Two of the three have not changed.
Yeah good point, and he's known as a great worker so he's undoubtedly diving head first into the new playbook. Personally I'm not concerned about TC.
Gmanc711 07-16-2008, 12:03 PM Yeah good point, and he's known as a great worker so he's undoubtedly diving head first into the new playbook. Personally I'm not concerned about TC.
Me either. I mean I absolutley love the guy for what he did last year, but I still think alot of that had soley to due with being in Saunders Offense for so long and knowing exactly where everyone would be every play. I think if he was really "that good" he would have entertained alot more offers in the offseason. I'm stoaked to have him back this season, dont get me wrong, but JC is my #1 priority of learning the offense.
GoSkins! 07-16-2008, 12:53 PM Me either. I mean I absolutley love the guy for what he did last year, but I still think alot of that had soley to due with being in Saunders Offense for so long and knowing exactly where everyone would be every play. I think if he was really "that good" he would have entertained alot more offers in the offseason. I'm stoaked to have him back this season, dont get me wrong, but JC is my #1 priority of learning the offense.
If the Anthony Mix TD would have stood in the Seattle game, and we went on to win, I think you would have seen a few more offers for TC. At his age, he needed to prove he could carry a team, by himself, in the playoffs for other teams to invest in a 36 year old starter.
jsarno 07-16-2008, 01:02 PM I would agree with this. If nothing else, Collins showed last year that he has completely mastered the Saunders offense. In 10 years he never got a significant chance to play. But it stands to reason that had he gotten that shot, he would have displayed the same mastery he did when he played for us last season.
I hate to even point this out cause I agree with the rest of the post, but this is the 2nd time I saw this idea that he never got a "real shot". In 97 he played in 14 games, and started 13. He was named the starter from week 1 that year, and he did not play well at all. In the games that he played in, the team went 5-9. He threw for only 2367 yards, 12 tds, 13 ints, 55% comp., and a 69.5 rating. I will certainly grant you that he was young then (26), and likely not nearly as intelligent as he is now. Just felt like I needed to point out that he did indeed have a shot at one time.
However, I do agree with Jsarno when he says that Saunders is no longer the coordinator, which does render last year's performance irrelevant to a certain degree. You can only be confident in Collins as a backup this season if you're confident that he can master the Zorn offense quickly and as effectively as he knew the Saunders offense.
Collins does not have a strong arm. He can't wait for guys to come open. He had to throw before guys made their break. The only way he could do this was by innately knowing when guys were about to break off a route. Is he going to know when Zorn's receivers are going to break their routes, or will he need to hold the ball to be sure they're breaking? And if he does hold the ball, can his arm get the ball into spots where DBs are breaking in response to the WR's move?
One thing Collins has going for him is he's a vet. He's intelligent and will not make rookie mistakes. But, if we have to use him, I'd worry about his ability to make all the throws, because I don't think he can anticipate the breaks in this offense yet. I'd worry about seeing a Mark Brunell year. Very low INTs, but rarely any risks taken because of a lack of confidence in the arm.
Great points.
But whatever, because Campbell is going to play all 16 because his line's going to be healthy and will protect him well.
Have you been reading "the secret"? haha.
I certainly share in your optimism here, and I look forward to our new season. Don't forget, we still have Bugel, and he's a great line coach...especially with all the experience our guys have had with him.
skinsfan69 07-16-2008, 02:07 PM We should've kept around Jordan Palmer. I don't think Colt B. is ever going to be NFL material.
KokoMike 07-16-2008, 02:19 PM Since 93% of fans in the Redskins poll voted that they want Colt to make the team, I think that is a reflection of the great Redskin spirit. I want him to make the team and I want him to excel. If he does, it will possibly push Jason to greater accomplishments and, at the very least, give us options and hope for the future. In the near term, Colt will not be a threat in any way to Jason. I suggest that they will like each other and will help each other. I think it is clear that the people who don't like/respect Colt, for whatever reason, will emphasize any negatives they see. He's fair game. What I am enjoying is that the people who like and respect Colt are raising the bar. The people who don't like him seem to be making a stink about a sixth round draft pick who, in their minds, shouldn't have been drafted at all. Having followed Brennan's development, I can tell you one thing...the guy is going to give it his best and will be a positive in the locker room. That's worth a lot to me.
redsk1 07-16-2008, 02:42 PM We should've kept around Jordan Palmer. I don't think Colt B. is ever going to be NFL material.
I'm not sure Jordan Palmer is either. Maybe we should give Colt a chance. I'd have to think he's got more talent than Jordan.
Palmer isn't exactly NFL material either at this point.
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