What's our greatest need now?

Hmm, Michael Strahan comes to mind as a large defensive end that fell to the second round...

If we're going to miss, I wouldn't mind missing on a 6'7" 290 lb DE. I hate the combine, all these numbers are an attempt to quantify something that can't be quantified. Those combine drills are just that, drills, who cares that he sucks at the shuttle cone, or doesn't run a 4.5 40 yd dash, or only does 15 reps on the bench press. At 6'7" he's going to knock down passes, at 290 he can be effective against the run, and obviously he played well enough during the season to merit 1st round attention. And long term, we've got a Pro Bowl at TE already, would it have hurt to draft Campbell?

Most times our 2 TE sets only force the D to account for 3 pass catching threats, with the addition of Davis, it makes it 4. While I wasn't the biggest fan of the pick (I wanted Groves) I can see the logic. It makes the offense much more dynamic, all of the 2nd round picks did. I'm not mad about the draft at all.

I do agree that another end would have been nice, but I don't think Campbell will be that much better than Daniels. I would have liked to have seen Groves be the pick, but I love Fred Davis's playmaking ability and I can't be mad about that pick.

Hmm, Michael Strahan comes to mind as a large defensive end that fell to the second round...

If we're going to miss, I wouldn't mind missing on a 6'7" 290 lb DE. I hate the combine, all these numbers are an attempt to quantify something that can't be quantified. Those combine drills are just that, drills, who cares that he sucks at the shuttle cone, or doesn't run a 4.5 40 yd dash, or only does 15 reps on the bench press. At 6'7" he's going to knock down passes, at 290 he can be effective against the run, and obviously he played well enough during the season to merit 1st round attention. And long term, we've got a Pro Bowl at TE already, would it have hurt to draft Campbell?
Hmm, I don't know Strahan's exact combine numbers, but I would bet a dime to a dollar that his bench press wasn't the WORST of all D-Lineman at the combine. I'm also pretty sure he ran better than a 5.0.

With Campbell's size and great sophomore season he was expected to be a top 5 pick in the NFL at some point. His junior season was below expectations and his work ethic is questionable. If your are a D-I DE at the U and you can only bench 8 reps at 225 (pre-combine Jan. 2008), something is wrong. You're either weak or lazy. I don't want to miss on a pick where there are serious warning signs for a bust. Campbell's D-Line coach from UofM is now on staff with the Skins. Campbell was available at a reasonable point in the draft and the Skins didn't take him, to me that speaks volumes.

The combine is not just "drills". It measures raw physical ability and that raw physical ability is extremely important in the NFL. Every NFL team seems to think it's pretty important, otherwise they wouldn't bother to attend.

At 6' 7", 290 Campbell doesn't have a low center of gravity, he's weak, with a questionable work ethic. At strong-side DE he would be getting BLOWN-UP at the point of attack. After that happened a couple of times how willing is he going to be to get back in there and "step it up", not very is my guess. I'd take Phillip Daniels for the next 4-5 years over Campbell in a heartbeat.

Having two TEs that are receiving threats is very important and creates match-up issues for the opposing D.

I'd take Phillip Daniels for the next 4-5 years over Campbell in a heartbeat.

Dude, I agree with what you say abour Calais Campbell but if we can keep Daniels for the 4-5 years (at a reasonable price) as a legitimate starter, I swear I will cut my bollocks off.

Hmm, I don't know Strahan's exact combine numbers, but I would bet a dime to a dollar that his bench press wasn't the WORST of all D-Lineman at the combine. I'm also pretty sure he ran better than a 5.0.

With Campbell's size and great sophomore season he was expected to be a top 5 pick in the NFL at some point. His junior season was below expectations and his work ethic is questionable. If your are a D-I DE at the U and you can only bench 8 reps at 225 (pre-combine Jan. 2008), something is wrong. You're either weak or lazy. I don't want to miss on a pick where there are serious warning signs for a bust. Campbell's D-Line coach from UofM is now on staff with the Skins. Campbell was available at a reasonable point in the draft and the Skins didn't take him, to me that speaks volumes.

The combine is not just "drills". It measures raw physical ability and that raw physical ability is extremely important in the NFL. Every NFL team seems to think it's pretty important, otherwise they wouldn't bother to attend.

At 6' 7", 290 Campbell doesn't have a low center of gravity, he's weak, with a questionable work ethic. At strong-side DE he would be getting BLOWN-UP at the point of attack. After that happened a couple of times how willing is he going to be to get back in there and "step it up", not very is my guess. I'd take Phillip Daniels for the next 4-5 years over Campbell in a heartbeat.

Having two TEs that are receiving threats is very important and creates match-up issues for the opposing D.

Sorry for wanting us to address our d-line, somehow I got the crazy notion that a starting defensive end should get more than two sacks on the season. Based on that obviously flawed logic, I thought it would make sense to draft a replacement for the power lifter as opposed to someone who may catch 25 passes this year.

The combine is an attempt to quantify something that can't be explained. If it could be explained, why did the best quarterback in the NFL go in the 6th round? In the end, how many times someone can benchpress 185 lbs tells me how many times they can benchpress 185 lbs, nothing more and nothing less. If those measurables actually meant something then Trung Canidate would have run for 1500 yds and 15 scores for us instead of just becoming Matt Bowen's crash test dummy.

I like PDiddy, I really do, and I like that I'm the only one who calls Philip Daniels P Diddy. But I have this crazy dream, that one day we'll actually have a defensive end that is a force.

Now again, I love that we got weapons for Campbell. But at some point we are going to have to start drafting defensive ends before the 6th round, something we haven't done since 1997. Ten years and not one d-end has been "worthy" of being picked by us before round 6?

DE. Vinny didn't address the pass rush in the draft, and I'm not sold on Erasmus James given his frequent injuries. God forbid that Andre Carter gets hurt.

Dude, I agree with what you say abour Calais Campbell but if we can keep Daniels for the 4-5 years (at a reasonable price) as a legitimate starter, I swear I will cut my bollocks off.
I was just throwing that out for emphasis on how much I don't want Campbell. You are absolutely right, IMO no way Daniels will be productive past 2009.

Sorry for wanting us to address our d-line, somehow I got the crazy notion that a starting defensive end should get more than two sacks on the season. Based on that obviously flawed logic, I thought it would make sense to draft a replacement for the power lifter as opposed to someone who may catch 25 passes this year.
I was hoping for Phillip Merling to be drafted by us in the first round, but the way the draft played out it made sense to do what the FO did. There were a couple of picks where a DL who made sense was picked within 1-3 picks before our pick. Merling before Thomas, and I believe either Sims or the DT from ARK was right before Kelly. My point is that Campbell has a high chance of being a bust and better to get someone that can potentially help at another position than someone who won't help at all.

The combine is an attempt to quantify something that can't be explained. If it could be explained, why did the best quarterback in the NFL go in the 6th round? In the end, how many times someone can benchpress 185 lbs tells me how many times they can benchpress 185 lbs, nothing more and nothing less. If those measurables actually meant something then Trung Canidate would have run for 1500 yds and 15 scores for us instead of just becoming Matt Bowen's crash test dummy.I never said the combine is the only way to evaluate a player, film, statistical production, interviews, background checks all are pieces of the puzzle. The combine is an important piece. The combine quantifies raw physical ability. Because a guy like Brady slips to the 6th round or a player is a bust, doesn't mean we should throw out the combine. I was high on Campbell before the combine, but to put up terrible numbers to me is a huge red flag. On the DL, cone numbers and 40 times are not as important as strength. Bench press is a pretty good indicator of overall upper body strength and Campbell will not hold up in the NFL on the DL

I was hoping for Phillip Merling to be drafted by us in the first round, but the way the draft played out it made sense to do what the FO did. There were a couple of picks where a DL who made sense was picked within 1-3 picks before our pick. Merling before Thomas, and I believe either Sims or the DT from ARK was right before Kelly. My point is that Campbell has a high chance of being a bust and better to get someone that can potentially help at another position than someone who won't help at all.


I was just hoping against hope for a defensive lineman. Will Campbell be a bust, maybe, I have no clue or interest since he's not a Skin and I know absolutely nothing about him.

As for what the FO did, they did it. It doesn't really make sense to me, it reminded me of when they signed Randle-El and Lloyd in the same summer. Yes, you guard against busts, but if you do your job scouting and evaluating then why the need to hedge your bets?

As was said before somewhere, Erasmus James may pan out. Hopefully. If he can stay healthy.

I was just hoping against hope for a defensive lineman. Will Campbell be a bust, maybe, I have no clue or interest since he's not a Skin and I know absolutely nothing about him. Earlier in response to my first post in the thread, you mentioned taking a risk on him vs. Fred Davis, shouldn't you know something about him before making that statement? IMO the FO did their homework on the guy and decided to pass because they scouted and evaluated him properly. Only time will tell if they were right or not.

As for what the FO did, they did it. It doesn't really make sense to me, it reminded me of when they signed Randle-El and Lloyd in the same summer. Yes, you guard against busts, but if you do your job scouting and evaluating then why the need to hedge your bets?Again IMO, the reasoning for the FO drafting the way they did was to put weapons around J. Campbell to help him develop and help the offense be more open and productive. We are at a critical point with JC, if he doesn't step up late this year or at the very worst early next, we have a problem. His contract is up at the end of 2009 and we certainly need to know if he is going to be the Man for the next 7-8 years and be re-signed or do we need to go in another direction. (IMO he will be, but we've got to find out ASAP).

The signings of Randel-El and Llyod were at the urging of Al Saunders, if you want to place blame, those two fall primarily on Saunders and to an extent Joe Gibbs also. The FO delivered exactly who the coaching staff requested.

Earlier in response to my first post in the thread, you mentioned taking a risk on him vs. Fred Davis, shouldn't you know something about him before making that statement? IMO the FO did their homework on the guy and decided to pass because they scouted and evaluated him properly. Only time will tell if they were right or not.

Again IMO, the reasoning for the FO drafting the way they did was to put weapons around J. Campbell to help him develop and help the offense be more open and productive. We are at a critical point with JC, if he doesn't step up late this year or at the very worst early next, we have a problem. His contract is up at the end of 2009 and we certainly need to know if he is going to be the Man for the next 7-8 years and be re-signed or do we need to go in another direction. (IMO he will be, but we've got to find out ASAP).

The signings of Randel-El and Llyod were at the urging of Al Saunders, if you want to place blame, those two fall primarily on Saunders and to an extent Joe Gibbs also. The FO delivered exactly who the coaching staff requested.

I'm more of a believer that you build a football team from the inside out. Our two oldest units are our offensive and defensive lines, they could use some young blood. Now was Campbell that guy? Maybe. And I'd take a chance on a guy who finished the season with first round buzz, kinda like we did with the two wideouts we drafted who were both projected as first round picks. Can't have it both ways there SSB, if Campbell slide because of some bust factor it applies to Thomas and Kelly as well. But I don't think anyone is more prone to be a bust, if that were the case then they wouldn't get drafted at all. You don't know, no one knows. Heck, Mel Kiper doesn't even know. Its a known unknown, to borrow from Rummy,

I don't presuppose to know more than D&V, but did we really need two receivers in the draft? To me it speaks of indecision, we couldn't decide between the two so when the opportunity to get them both came along we did so. I love getting Campbell some weapons and see what he can do, but having to learn yet another new offense and having yet another coach critique his form is a setback.

The FO gets credit for the successes (Portis, Carter, Washington) but the failures are always at the behest of someone else (Archuleta, Lloyd, Canidate). NO! Coaches coach, they get to say what they need or would like to have, its got to be up to D&V to either say yea or nay. If Campbell had bust on him, didn't ARch deluxe have that same aura around him?