RI: JZ and JC

SC Skins fan - even with that shit game in Seattle, he still had a QB rating 20 points higher the Campbell when the season was over.

lets review the stats:
Collins was 5 -1 as a starter
Campbell was 4 -7 as a starter
exactly............its all about wins and losses.

or 4-1
vs 5-7

todd collins has and will remain a backup....he is a backup, end of story...

SC Skins fan - even with that shit game in Seattle, he still had a QB rating 20 points higher the Campbell when the season was over.

lets review the stats:
Collins was 5 -1 as a starter
Campbell was 4 -7 as a starter
exactly............its all about wins and losses.

Collins played very well at the end of last year, and I think all Redskins fans will hold a special place for him in their hearts for that (well, as long as he doesn't play anymore and end up playing poorly - see Mark Brunell and fans booing him after he took us to the playoffs in 2005). Now, if you are going to go with your 'it's just about wins' then fine, but I'll make several points.

1) Collins also had the benefit of a healthy Santana Moss, a healthy Clinton Portis, and an O-Line that finally came together a bit. Part of the offensive success was certainly due to Collins, but there were other factors too, let's not forget that.

2) If you want to do a comparison why not look at the last 5 games Jason Campbell played (Philadelphia to Chicago) and compare those to the 5 games that Collins started. That leaves out a couple of the best games Campbell had last year too, but what you see is that Campbell was developing as the year progressed. He had two 300 yard games (Collins had zero), he had another game where he threw 3 tds (Collins never did that), he completed over 60% of his passes in all but the Buffalo game (and we all know what was going on that week), and had more TDs than INTs (albeit 6-5).

3) Even if you wanted to make the case the Collins should start (and you might be the only person on here who would do that) then you are saying you want to go with a 37 year old guy who maybe has two years left, take the team away from Campbell and basically abandon him because it would be tough to come back after that. So in one or two years you'll have to go find another QB ... and those aren't so easy to find. Just ask Chicago.

But welcome tot he board nonetheless.

I would rather have Todd Collins start anyways. Granted, he ran an Al Saunders offense that he knew in KC, but he has what it takes to win games and run an offense. his QB rating was about 100, and lead us to 5 straight wins. Its clear Campbell cannot run an offense. He makes too many key mistakes, like the ends of the TB and Dallas games where he threw costly picks. His TD and INT ratio is bad, and his QB rating has been low as well, in the high 70's. The upsetting thing is that his stats show no improvement year to year. We cannot win with him, just look at his record as a starter, its below 500. though collins is old, he really hasnt been banged up much in his career due to being a backup.

:pffff:

SC Skins fan:
#1 i can agree to an extent. nonethless, collins manages the game and offense. campbell just looks uneasy.

#2 is not a good point. Joe Gibbs offenses are all about ball control. When our QB throws for 300 yards, its usually means we are losing. Its all about managing the game and not losing it (ala TB and Dallas game this year, Campbells INTs were costly)

#3 - I want a QB that gives us the best chance to win NOW. How much longer are we going to wait for this guy to lead us deep in the playoffs? 2,3,4 more years? never?
Campbell was highly sought after his 11-0 season with Auburn, mind you they had the #1 D in the nation giving up like 200 yards a game, and he basically just "didnt lose games"
His QB rating has been in the bottom tier of the league the last two years.
Believe me, I hope I am wrong and he takes us to the promise land.

SC Skins fan:
#2 is not a good point. Joe Gibbs offenses are all about ball control. When our QB throws for 300 yards, its usually means we are losing. Its all about managing the game and not losing it (ala TB and Dallas game this year, Campbells INTs were costly)


I don't know why I allow myself to get dragged into fruitless arguments, but...

You are running around in circles with your points. Campbell throws for 300 yards only because the Redskins are losing ... fair point, but were the Redskins losing to Dallas because of Campbell? Perhaps you remember the Sean Taylor-less defensive backfield that allowed T.O. to score FOUR TDs? How about in Tampa where Santana Moss fumbled inside the 30, Clinton Portis fumbled inside the 30, and then (admittedly) Campbell fumbled inside the 30 (something he certainly did too much of last season). But the point is, the fact that Campbell was playing from behind or forced to pass is not in itself an indictment of Campbell. I think you really ought to go back and watch some of those games again because I think you are looking back through Todd Collins tinted glasses. You say Campbell looked 'uneasy' and yet at the time many commentators and many here were describing him as 'poised' (go watch the Detroit game or the first Philly game - if you can make it past the endless Charles Barkley commentary - or any number of other games) - my point is you are making up your own history to suit your own purposes.

The larger point here (which I tried to make earlier with sarcasm) is that Todd Collins made those exact same kinds of mistakes that you indict Campbell for during the Seattle game when he was forced to play from behind and the Skins could not mix in a healthy dose of the run game. He was under heavy pressure (as Campbell often was), he was playing from behind, and he turned the ball over too. As I said, luckily you are the only one calling for Todd Collins to start because it is the height of absurdity.

^ agreed.

i agree two or is that three

oh the commentators said he looked poised. then its bible. please....

we can round and round about specific games. look at the arizona game this year the redskins won and amassed 178 yards or so of total offense. campbell was awful. most of the points were setup off of Skins picks - taylor (RIP) and Fletcher.

Sure the Skins were behind in both those games against TB and Dallas - but good QBs finish those drives with game winning TD's, not Ints. both those picks were not even close to the receiver. I understand collins threw cost picks in the Seattle game, thats why looking at an overall QB rating takes into consideration the average entire season, and Campbell continues to be in the high 70's, which is in the bottom third of the league. its kind of hard to argue stats. 4-6 as a starter wont cut it in DC. Cambpell is lucky there was a coaching change, because Gibbs would have stuck with Collins.


you know, this is the same argument I had with people when they were high on Ramsey.