Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?

I also like our discussions because, IMO, we both try our best to back up our opinions and thoughts with some sort of stat or fact. Never is it "He is great because I think he is," and thats all you get. I understand what you are doing better now and why you rank they way you rank. And I agree that the QB position is too often weighed too heavily. However,I am not sure how you think about this, and I have said it before, when you have a HOF QB, (ie. Favre, Elway(I know how you feel about him, but he is a HOF'er), Marino, Montana...) that QB is so good that they can make average WR's look good. My point is that, IMO, Favre made Freeman look great those seasons that they went to the SB. Marino, again IMO, made Dupper and Clayton look good. And the list goes on, but then you have anomilies where you get HOF WR's to go with HOF QB's. Montan and Young to Rice, Manning to Harrision, Bradshaw to Lynn and Stallworth.

All I am getting at is that if a Team has a HOF caliber player on it, that player will make average players look above average. Too many times have you see a player shine with another player only to leave and fall flat on there face. Example, Culpepper without Moss, Freeman without Favre and many others I am sure.

I absolutely agree with you. I really don't care if I "change people's minds", (like many people think I am trying to achieve) I will put my best argument on the table, and if you can provide a good argument in return, I will respect that, and agree to disagree like we have on several occasions, and on occasion, my mind has been changed with stats, or an argument I didn't think of. I can't respect arguments based totally on opinion, and no stats or facts to back it up.

I do think you are misunderstanding me about Elway. I do agree he's a hall of famer, I just firmly disagree he's above Favre on the all time list, and IMO he lands somewhere from 10th-15th all time. The argument could be made to have him higher, but that's where I rank him.

I do agree with most everything you say. Moss did indeed help Culpepper, however, I would argue that Culpepper was very good without Moss. Look at his 2004 season when he had 4700+ yards...one of the best seasons in the history of football. Moss had only 49 catches for 767 yards, and Burleson had the best statistical season for the Vikings. Culpepper fell off because of that knee injury, he tried to come back too fast and it hurt his rep.
Ultimately I agree with you saying that a HOFer makes and average player look much better. There are plenty of examples too.

I say 3 MVPs and a Super Bowl put him on the outer edge of the Top 5 QBs all-time. For my money, there was no other non-Redskin that I enjoyed watching or had more respect for than Brett Favre. I'm kind of sad to see him go.

I watched the Chiefs 23-7 win over the Vikings in SB IV last month and I gotta say I think because of all the hoopla of Namath and the Jets the year before people tend to forget what KC Chiefs of the AFL did.

And Len Dawson looked really sharp in that game. Very accurate passer. I wouldn't say he's top 10, but I would love to know what others here who actually remember seeing him play thought of him. I never saw him play , but have always been a fan of his . He is from the same small town in Ohio that my family is from , Alliance . My uncle dated Lenny's little sister in high school .He also played ,,,18 years ?

I didn't know that Favre is the ONLY 3 time MVP in history (just saw it on ESPN), and he did it in consecutive seasons.

Also, how in the world did a guy with these stats make the Hall (other than 1 game)????
Joe Namath Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NamaJo00.htm)

favre is the best ive ever seen. he was a great leader, extremely durable, and more than willing to carry the team on his back, plus he was a hell of a passer.

I didn't know that Favre is the ONLY 3 time MVP in history (just saw it on ESPN), and he did it in consecutive seasons.

Also, how in the world did a guy with these stats make the Hall (other than 1 game)????
Joe Namath Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NamaJo00.htm)

'66 and '67 were good.... He got in the same way Desmond Howard won the SB MVP back in '97. His moment was short lived, but made a difference, and it was remembered so well, that it stayed fresh in the voter's minds. Thanks for the stats. Namath of course was before my time and I have always heard he was good, but not great. After that I have a hard time calling him good. His stats reveal reliability, but thats about it. It also raises the question of if a SB win really makes a difference in HOF votes. If Chris Carter wins the SB with the Dolphins his final year, does he get in before Monk? (my vote says NO and NEVER for Carter, but I cant vote)

You can tell you don't pay attention to the posts, because you would realize that you have spelt defense wrong several times.

So I guess the Skins defense sucked this past year cause we let up 50 some odd points to the Pats right? I guess we should strip the Giants of their SB win cause they let up 45 to the Cowboys, 41 to the Vikings, and 38 to the patriots?
I guess the previous 17 or 18 games for the Broncos mean nothing, but the one game vs the best team they had to face means everything to you. Didn't realize you'd be judged SOLELY on 1 game and not the 18 or so that lead up to it.
That is a crazy statement to say that Elway didn't blow games. Until you prove that statement, I will consider it blind love for Elway. EVERY QB has lost games, and Elway did too.
I already pointed out that Favre threw 145 go ahead tds to Elway's only 103. AND I pointed out that Favre played better in the playoffs. What more do you need? You don't get 42 more go ahead TDs by choking buddy.
You can't ignore EVERYTHING and just point out super bowls (something that is a TEAM issue, not individual). That's the ONLY thing Elway has him in. You can ignore all the stats, MVPs, all pros all you want, but it doesn't make Elway better.
By your logic, Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino since Dilfer has a championship, and Marino does not. You seem like a logical poster, so I emplore you to open your mind and see this objectively. I decided to take your advice and look at the stats . Yes Favre has better #'s td -int . During the time GB and Denver were playoff teams , I compared the stats of BF and JE . From1994-99 Td/int ratio, < 93 Favre td 19 - int 24 > Favre threw 178/ 92 , Elway1993-98 Td/Int , 140/69 . In the playoffs , Favre 12-10 win loss , Elway 14-8 , win loss .Playoff TD/Int Favre 39/28 , Elway 27/21. Not much difference . Favre was sacked 439 times in 8700 attempts , Elway sacked 516 tmes in only 7200 attemps . While I agree a qb should not be in the HOF because of a SB win , as you stated it is a team sport . I also think that a players stats will look better the more talented the team . After Staubach retired in 79 , the cowpukes won 5 playoff game in ten years , Bradshaw retired in 82 , Steelers won 2 playoff games in ten years , Elway retired 98 , ten years 1 playoff win for Denver .
As far as Denvers running game during the 80's , Winder played 9 years , 5,000 , 3.6 yds per carry < 3.1 > in the playoffs . As for my logic , you are assuming that I used the SB to judge Qb's . Had I believed that , I would have put Brady , Aikman , Griese and Plunkett on the list , not Marino . I just hope 10 years from now JC is talked about because we have added to our trophy case .

#1..

'66 and '67 were good.... He got in the same way Desmond Howard won the SB MVP back in '97. His moment was short lived, but made a difference, and it was remembered so well, that it stayed fresh in the voter's minds. Thanks for the stats. Namath of course was before my time and I have always heard he was good, but not great. After that I have a hard time calling him good. His stats reveal reliability, but thats about it. It also raises the question of if a SB win really makes a difference in HOF votes. If Chris Carter wins the SB with the Dolphins his final year, does he get in before Monk? (my vote says NO and NEVER for Carter, but I cant vote)I think there is a difference between Howard winning the SB MVP for a one game performance, and Joe Namath making the pro football Hall of Fame.Namath is defensible because at the time he was put in, his numbers were borderline HOF quality for the era. I think SB III helped him get in right away. If Namath was still on the outside looking in today, he would NEVER get into the HOF. He's just already there, so it's a non issue.

Young and Favre above Montana? Young #1 overall? Yikes.Well, I don't see, objectively, how Montana could go above Young. They did play in the same system, and Montana had the unianimously better coach to play for, and Young's numbers totally abuse Montana's. Yeah, there's a small era adjustment in there to be accounted for, but it's not even close. I know Jsarno didn't, but I had Montana above Favre.