Chargers and Norv

[QUOTEFYI- he's 5-13 in the playoffs, one of the worst records of all time in the postseason.[/QUOTE]

He blows!! That's embarrasing.

No I'm not, he never had more than 1 playoff win in a season in Cleveland. Please go back and read my post. Only 1 time did Schott win 2 playoff games in a season.
Marty Schottenheimer Record, Statistics, and Category Ranks - Pro-Football-Reference.com (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/SchoMa0.htm)

FYI- he's 5-13 in the playoffs, one of the worst records of all time in the postseason.

You're right, but my point is he's gotten to the Championship game 3 times in his coaching career. Two of those back to back years.

This article is from earlier this year, and you could be right that he has improved jsarno. But this quote summarizes exactly what I was trying to say about what I saw of Norv while he was coaching the Redskins:

"Talk to Turner's former players, and this is what they'll tell you: Give the man one job, and he'll do that job well. But give him a big job with multiple responsibilities, and he gets anxious and scattered and has a hard time doing any one thing capably."

Charging toward disaster - NFL - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-morningrush092407&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

It's a good link, but since then, no one has made a peep in the SD locker room, and that is speculation from a former player.
"That team is a mess, and you know the players are wondering what the hell is going on," one NFL veteran who played for Turner in Oakland told me Sunday night. "They're looking to Norv for answers and leadership, and they won't get it. Marty had them on edge, ready to play, and they responded to that. And now this? They're a great team but it's not working, and it's not gonna work."
Problem is, it DID work, and it IS working.
The Colts were the 2nd best team in the NFL in my opinion, and they overcame it to win. If Turner is still wishy washy, then he has good coaches around him to help deflect that.

Wasn't you the one who said that coaches are overrated? You will never convince me that Marty is a great coach, he will be forever be remembered as a CHOKER to me and lots of fans till proven otherwise.Unfortunately that's not how it works. That's the equivalent of putting your hands over your ears and shouting "LALALALLALA IM NOT LISTENING LALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU" which isnt really going to progress the argument.

The term "choker" is an argument designed to avoid substance since there is no criteria for choking. It's pretty much just "I dont like X player/coach, therefore he's a choker".

Please try again.

[QUOTE=Please try again.[/QUOTE]

Ok. 5-13 in the playoffs, HE SUCKS!!!!!!!!!

It's a good link, but since then, no one has made a peep in the SD locker room, and that is speculation from a former player.
"That team is a mess, and you know the players are wondering what the hell is going on," one NFL veteran who played for Turner in Oakland told me Sunday night. "They're looking to Norv for answers and leadership, and they won't get it. Marty had them on edge, ready to play, and they responded to that. And now this? They're a great team but it's not working, and it's not gonna work."
Problem is, it DID work, and it IS working.
The Colts were the 2nd best team in the NFL in my opinion, and they overcame it to win. If Turner is still wishy washy, then he has good coaches around him to help deflect that.I don't think that highly of Norv Turner, but if we are going to make the argument that the Chargers are winning in spite of him, then technically we have to say that about every coach ever. So I agree with you here, we can't hate on Norv for what he is doing.

I, of course, prefer to say that teams win largely independent of their coaching.

You're right, but my point is he's gotten to the Championship game 3 times in his coaching career. Two of those back to back years.

That's a good point, and I will counter with the fact that he hasn't won a single playoff game since 92, and has played 6 playoff games since.
Please note the dominance of these teams too starting with the most recent:
2006- 14-2
2004- 12-4
1997- 13-3
1995- 13-3
1994- 9-7
1993- 11-5

With the exception of 94, those were some dominant teams. The man can win during the season, but when it comes to the playoffs, he is horrendous. Sure you can point to the Byner fumble, but there were other missed opportunities in that game, it didn't even have to come down to that.

Everyone wants to say Marty is a choker because he's never made it to the Super Bowl, yet no one considers a.) crazy circumstances (except skinsfan69 apparently) such as the Byner fumble or the drive, b.) that he overachieves with limited talent. Not to mention all the byes he earned.

Should he be declared a choker for not winning a championship or one of the better coaches for getting his team that far?

Wasn't you the one who said that coaches are overrated? You will never convince me that Marty is a great coach, he will be forever be remembered as a CHOKER to me and lots of fans till proven otherwise.

I said it was overrated because the teams that wins the SB ( most of the time) has the best players. Teams don't win the SB because of great coaching.

I'm not saying Marty is a great coach. But he's better than Norv.

I don't think that highly of Norv Turner, but if we are going to make the argument that the Chargers are winning in spite of him, then technically we have to say that about every coach ever. So I agree with you here, we can't hate on Norv for what he is doing.

I, of course, prefer to say that teams win largely independent of their coaching.

I wish I had more time, cause I would love to discuss your theory about coaching via PM.
I'm not so sure I agree, but I think you're right in certain cases.