For everyone that didn't give up!

But isn't it, well, difficult to debate thoughtfully around such a passionate thing like football? Particularly when both people are equally as passionate about the same team?

Let's say one person is more skilled at actually debating than someone else, does that somehow make their viewpoint less of an argument or thought worthy? Perhaps they aren't as good at articulating thoughts, facts, and arguments. And to some extent, I think that's where a huge part of the divide, so to speak, exists. To your point though, I think we should be able to debate without bickering, but I doubt it's possible when emotions run high as they often do around Redskins football.

I see your point, but I'm not sure what to conclude from it.

Someone's argument may be really insightful and spot on, but if it's encased in nonsense and fallacy, I'm going to assume that it's nonsensical and fallacious until they can articulate it better.

If someone can't debate well, exhibits poor thinking ability, reasoning ability, or logical thought process and is unable to articulate their point, what should I conclude?

All we have to go on here is how someone articulates their point. If someone rambles on incoherently with poor grammar, poor spelling, fills their "argument" with fallacies and nonsense, what should I conclude?

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

To your point though, I think we should be able to debate without bickering, but I doubt it's possible when emotions run high as they often do around Redskins football.

Per the forum guidelines, it's the responsibility of the poster to calm their emotions before posting. The "think before you post" rule. And another one of the guidelines, to treat each other with the utmost respect. The bickering has got to go, no matter how hard it may be.

People are making some good points here.

I just wanted to reiterate that it's usually those that are on the extreme ends of the fan spectrum that keep shit like this going. And some of those people we have gotten rid of lately if you haven't noticed.

I see your point, but I'm not sure what to conclude from it.

The point may very well be perfectly valid and spot on, but if it's encased in nonsense and fallacy, I'm going to assume that it's nonsensical and fallacious until they can articulate it better.

If someone can't debate well, exhibits poor thinking ability, reasoning ability, or logical thought process and is unable to articulate their point, what should I conclude?

All we have to go on here is how someone articulates their point. If someone rambles on incoherently with poor grammar, poor spelling, fills their "argument" with fallacies and nonsense, what should I conclude?

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

Exactly.

If you post nonsense, your opinion gets dismissed. Doesn't matter whether you're capable of posting well-articulated points or not. But to me, the issue comes down to how we treat each other. The issue to me is that one side questions the other's fan hood for thinking anything negative, and the other side questions the other's intelligence for having blind faith. On both sides, that has to stop.

The high road here is to post rational justification behind everything you post. Then you're not open to that ridiculous criticism from the "other side". And on the flipside, we as members, and the mods as mods, can take steps to come down on people who start up a bickering match.

People are making some good points here.

I just wanted to reiterate that it's usually those that are on the extreme ends of the fan spectrum that keep shit like this going. And some of those people we have gotten rid of lately if you haven't noticed.

Yes, I did notice, and LOVED that move. I'm probably not giving you guys your due for taking action. You're the best forum staff I've come across. Just wanted to say that amidst my calling for improvement on the bickering.

Exactly.

If you post nonsense, your opinion gets dismissed. Doesn't matter whether you're capable of posting well-articulated points or not. But to me, the issue comes down to how we treat each other. The issue to me is that one side questions the other's fan hood for thinking anything negative, and the other side questions the other's intelligence for having blind faith. On both sides, that has to stop.

The high road here is to post rational justification behind everything you post. Then you're not open to that ridiculous criticism from the "other side". And on the flipside, we as members, and the mods as mods, can take steps to come down on people who start up a bickering match.

Agreed.

Unfortunately the people currently involved in this discussion are probably not the ones that need to hear this...

Per the forum guidelines, it's the responsibility of the poster to calm their emotions before posting. The "think before you post" rule. And another one of the guidelines, to treat each other with the utmost respect. The bickering has got to go, no matter how hard it may be.

Truthfully, how many people actually read or have read the forum guidelines? I haven't. And that's not out of disrespect to the site or the Mods. I love this place. I just try to keep myself in check, be nice for the most part, and I think I'll stay out of trouble. Yes, respect should be a written forum guideline that should be followed, but isn't that one of life's basic tenets? If someone needs to read the forum guidelines to exercise their better judgement in terms of respect for their fellow man and fellow fan, for that matter, then woe unto them.

I don't want to send the wrong message here. I do think the rules are very neccassary. I also think they are primarily for those who are either intent on breaking them to begin with or those who are well intentioned but perhaps a little ignorant about how forums are actually run.

Truthfully, how many people actually read or have read the forum guidelines? I haven't. And that's not out of disrespect to the site or the Mods. I love this place. I just try to keep myself in check, be nice for the most part, and I think I'll stay out of trouble. Yes, respect should be a written forum guideline that should be followed, but isn't that one of life's basic tenets? If someone needs to read the forum guidelines to exercise their better judgement in terms of respect for their fellow man and fellow fan, for that matter, then woe unto them.

I don't want to send the wrong message here. I do think the rules are very neccassary. I also think they are primarily for those who are either intent on breaking them to begin with or those who are well intentioned but perhaps a little ignorant about how forums are actually run.

I've read the rules, and they're certainly necessary to have.

For the most part, the mature, sane individuals on here who have their head on straight would operate on the forum guidelines whether they are there or not, or whether they've read them or not.

The douchebags will be douchebags, no matter how many times they read the rules.

The rules give you a nice way to boot someone off the forum and not have it be arbitrary.

Truthfully, how many people actually read or have read the forum guidelines? I haven't. And that's not out of disrespect to the site or the Mods. I love this place. I just try to keep myself in check, be nice for the most part, and I think I'll stay out of trouble. Yes, respect should be a written forum guideline that should be followed, but isn't that one of life's basic tenets? If someone needs to read the forum guidelines to exercise their better judgement in terms of respect for their fellow man and fellow fan, for that matter, then woe unto them.

I don't want to send the wrong message here. I do think the rules are very neccassary. I also think they are primarily for those who are either intent on breaking them to begin with or those who are well intentioned but perhaps a little ignorant about how forums are actually run.

I'm with you. You're definitely not one of the trouble makers, in fact you're one of the model members around here and add a ton to the site. My beef is really with the guy who started this thread. The forum guidelines are based on common sense and common courtesy when it comes down to it, like you alluded to. But, like Mheisig just said, some people are just going to ignore them no matter what. My message is mainly directed at them (though I don't think they're reading at this point). But also, I'd be all in favor of mods and members coming down on this kind of behavior (like they did with one guy at the extreme end of the spectrum recently). Anyway, I've probably made my points. This is too much angst before a huge Cowboys game. I still heart you guys.

I've read the rules, and they're certainly necessary to have.

For the most part, the mature, sane individuals on here who have their head on straight would operate on the forum guidelines whether they are there or not, or whether they've read them or not.

The douchebags will be douchebags, no matter how many times they read the rules.

The rules give you a nice way to boot someone off the forum and not have it be arbitrary.

agreed. but still, there's something about have a douchebag drop by every now and then that's keeps it all interesting:)