Jason Whitlock column on Taylor

For the record, this is why I said subculture:


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1275969/def.JPG

Edit- I just read your latest post. IF violence is not a key element in hip hop, if it is only what the salesmen sell, then don't you think it is important that the positive forces in hip hop start getting the pub that all of the thugs are currently receiving? Personally, I am not a fan of rap music because of the message, not the delivery. I don't envy those in economically difficult situations, nor those in prison, nor those making money selling drugs. That may be only the vocal minority in the hip hop community espousing those views but as a very casual observer, that is what I am hearing.

Don't mistake the business of hip hop with the culture of hip hop. That's what I mean by salesmen. And that's the only message you're getting with hip hop through those salesmen.

If you really feel strongly about hip hop's influence then find some solutions. I'm not saying it's right, but there's no real organization because it is driven by the hip hop business industry. But make no mistake, hip hop is not going away anytime soon - it's actually getting stronger and gaining more influence.

One other thing, some of those answers that you have come up with are general solutions to any social issues - education, community help, leadership. I guess that's what's needed - but how do you do/initiate this?

For the record, this is why I said subculture:


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-8/1275969/def.JPG

I agree with the definition but I would take away subgroup(replace it with group) and sub from subculture.

If you really feel strongly about hip hop's influence then find some solutions. I'm not saying it's right, but there's no real organization because it is driven by the hip hop business industry. But make no mistake, hip hop is not going away anytime soon - it's actually getting stronger and gaining more influence.

One other thing, some of those answers that you have come up with are general solutions to any social issues - education, community help, leadership. I guess that's what's needed - but how do you do/initiate this?

They are general solutions, because it's a general problem. The only way to initiate it is to openly discuss it like we are right now. Without attacking race and other issues that truly are not the root of the problem. The only way to affect any real change in america is with money, let's be honest. If consumers started spending their money on hip hop artists with a positive message (Common is one of the few that i can think of...) then the industry will gradually change. It's going to take STRONG, credible community leaders though.

They are general solutions, because it's a general problem. The only way to initiate it is to openly discuss it like we are right now. Without attacking race and other issues that truly are not the root of the problem. The only way to affect any real change in america is with money, let's be honest. If consumers started spending their money on hip hop artists with a positive message (Common is one of the few that i can think of...) then the industry will gradually change. It's going to take STRONG, credible community leaders though.

Selling positive messages does not work - it does not work in the TV, Film, Sports, and Internet media industries. How will it work for hip hop? And we cannot control hip hop artists or anyone else, only ourselves. We can have an influence, depending on relationships and our political and economic power, on someone else, but not we may not be able to convince them to do anything. Of course, everyone thinks about their own well-being first and then maybe social issues.

warriorzpath,

I think we mostly disagree on these issues but I can respect what you have said because you have stated it well, with passion and intelligence. One thing you have said several times is that people shouldn't be identifying issues without coming up with solutions. I do think that to be slightly naive. It is disingenuous to ridicule someone for pointing out a problem without offering a solution. It is also lacking much thought because if finding the solutions to problems was as easy as identifying them then we'd probably have very few problems in this world. Inevitably though most problesm require much more thought and dilligence in solving them rather than simply seeing them. I have no problem with Whitlock pointing them out. It is the first step to solving the problem.

Selling positive messages does not work - it does not work in the TV, Film, Sports, and Internet media industries. How will it work for hip hop? And we cannot control hip hop artists or anyone else, only ourselves. We can have an influence, depending on relationships and our political and economic power, on someone else, but not we cannot control them.

Does not work? How so?

Does not work? How so?

Because what drives these industries, first and foremost, is money. The priority is to provide what sells regardless of social impact. Then the next priority may be social impact, maybe.

Selling positive messages does not work - it does not work in the TV, Film, Sports, and Internet media industries. How will it work for hip hop? And we cannot control hip hop artists or anyone else, only ourselves. We can have an influence, depending on relationships and our political and economic power, on someone else, but not we cannot control them.

I'm going to draw a parallel that is more than a bit of a stretch. 30 years ago, everyone knew smoking was bad for you. But they didn't know how bad. Then when they learned how bad, they still didn't stop because they were addicted. It was a habit that was literally ingrained in our culture. Over the past decade or so the country has had the "right" choice literally forced on them. No smoking in bars, businesses or buses for that matter. People bitched and moaned (still are) every step of the way but in the end, we're all better for it. This is not all that different if you think about it. The problem is wide spread, the issue is intertwined with the culture and the end result is deadly. You know, in Germany, it is illegal to say anything positive about Nazism or Hitler. Why? Because the country wants to try to keep from going back to that dark place. They made the decision that for the good of all they would infringe on the free speech of a few. That can be a slippery slope but in some cases it is obviously necessary. I think we are approaching that point. Maybe in addition to community action, education and responsible consumerism, there needs to be legislation that makes it illegal to profit off of any kind of "hate." It would be a hugely controversial issue but eventually it MAY be the only way. I don't know.

Because what drives these industries, first and foremost, is money. The priority is to provide what sells regardless of social impact. Then the next priority may be social impact, maybe.

Maybe a better way to say it would be "does not work very well" instead of "does not work."