F... Kool-Aid

Why isn't this thread called F...The Haters? Why is there this assumption that those that have a reasonably optimistic outlook have no grasp of logic and rationality?

Because, to this point, the overly optimistic crowd has not been able to produce much in the way of hows or whys when making their claims that we'll still make the playoffs. In many threads, they're refusing to consider reality and simply allowing their hopes to govern their discussion here. I'd grown tired of those threads, so I started this one. And thanks to a few great posts (especially by JWSleep IMO), there's actually some rationality backing up the optimistic view.

If we're going to simply talk about our beliefs for what will happen with the team, we don't have much to talk about. The debate goes "I believe A." "Oh yeah, well I believe B. What makes you think A is right?" I dunno, I just believe A is going to happen. Why is B so great? I just believe it."

Not much going on in that discussion.

This isn't to say I don't have optimism. I posted a thread earlier saying how we need to come out and get extremely intense and physical with Dallas, and that gives us a fighting chance. I also agree that a loss here by no means knocks us out of the playoff picture. I also agree that Tampa is a VERY pivotal game.

Just thought it would be nice to get some real discussion going and get away from the bickering over kool-aid vs haterade, that's all.

Because, to this point, the overly optimistic crowd has not been able to produce much in the way of hows or whys when making their claims that we'll still make the playoffs. In many threads, they're refusing to consider reality and simply allowing their hopes to govern their discussion here. I'd grown tired of those threads, so I started this one. And thanks to a few great posts (especially by JWSleep IMO), there's actually some rationality backing up the optimistic view.

And the "haterade" drinkers have been churning out rational, coherent, and persuasive arguments? I don't know about you, but I've read an awful lot of "Gibbs be the worresest coach in the leeg," "the Redskins couldnt beet a hi-school teem," etc.

I've seen similar posts from some of the "overly optimistic crowd." On the whole, however, I think the overly optimistic crowd has been coming up with good arguments as to why we will make the playoffs. For example, people have gone into a fair amount of detail as to how our remaining schedule will play out, how other NFC contenders' schedules will play out, talked about our offensive line starting to gel, etc.

I won't respond to this thread other than to say the fact that you are "F'ing" Redskins fans of any type or so called reason is wrong. IMHO

During Dallas week yer gonna take my time to read about F'ing Redskins fans? F... THAT!

Wanna be a hater? Try hating Dallas instead of other Redskins fans

peace out
mike

And the "haterade" drinkers have been churning out rational, coherent, and persuasive arguments? I don't know about you, but I've read an awful lot of "Gibbs be the worresest coach in the leeg," "the Redskins couldnt beet a hi-school teem," etc.

You're right, we can leave that crap at the door, too.

i want to reply, but am afraid to for not giving the right answers. well, i think the skins offense over the last 2 games has been fine. the running game has really started to work. and Campbell is starting to look like a very good qback. after watching some film of Gibbs one, its time for the coaching staff to step up, and let it rip. take an interception( or 2) for some long pass plays down the field. that will open up the running game even more. lets go to attack mode instead of the passive, lets play not to lose mode. if we stay aggressive, for some reason that carries over to the defense. and while we will miss Taylor, Prioleau is a more then adequate back up. lets at least try to win, and not go quietly. to me, this is a key game in the redskins season. not so much as needing to win. but as much as setting the tone.

Yeah, I honestly wouldn't mind at all to see JC take a shot or two down the field even if the result is an interception. If he throws the ball long enough the int shouldn't matter THAT much field position wise. Maybe I'm just desperate to see a shot down the field.

How is one to have a rational debate about a future event that hasn't even taken place with some many different variables at play? Namely, "I believe" Jason Campbell will have a good game? The very words, "I believe" should indicate that there aren't many facts to back it up in the first place. It's part gut and part hope. And if that's the case, what's so wrong about that?

Furthermore, every thread isn't more or less legitimate because it's perceived to be rational or irrational. Tell me, what's rational about a guy driving two hours, mingling through traffic, going to a parking lot full of strangers and cooking on grill in sub-zero temperatures? Then getting in a long ass line for another 45 minutes to get inside a huge arena with thousands of strangers to yell his or her lungs out in the freezing cold for the next three hours? Then coming home to, walk pass the dog, ignore the wife, log onto his/her computer to arugue, cry, bitch or moan with some guys/gals they've never met one day in their life? If you can explain that to me, I'll give you hard core facts as to why Jason Campbell will throw for 300 yrds Sunday against the Cowboys.

The only thing or event anyone can predict with certainty is the weather. And even that with all the instruments, aparatus, and expertise involved is 50/50 a lot of the times.

Best post on The Warpath in a long, long time.

No one can say with certainty whether we'll win or lose on any given Sunday. Yes, there is always a chance we can win. There's also always a chance we can lose.

I love arguing stats as much as the next guy, probably more, but when it comes down to it we're just arguing probability / likelihood of a future event. Anyone arguing that they know we'll win or they know we'll lose is just full of it.

You can believe something all you want and with all your heart - that doesn't make it true. I can believe with every last ounce of my being that I can fly, but when I take a leap off of a ten story building I'm going to be sorely disappointed in how much gravity doesn't care what I believe.

I say we form a group of "core guys" to bring back rational thought to the Warpath. We're not pessimists, we're not optimists, we're not drinking Kool-Aid or Hater-Aid, we're fans with realistic viewpoints, rational thought and a heart for our team.

Warpathers for Rational Thought (WRT)? The Warpath Foundation for Balanced and Rational Thought (TWBRT)? I dunno, is someone better with acronyms than I am? Warpathers Against Pessimism and Optimism (WAPO)?

Okay, I have waited almost one week to post of this site after the eagles debacle. My wife and I were at that game with awesome seats (15 yardline Redskins side, row 17th row). This was an expensive and time consuming investment. We were enjoying the game until the 4th quarter when the wheels seemingly came off. I could clearly see the fire and drive on the players faces during the game. But, to hear that some of the fans outwardly call-out coach Gibbs during the game greatly disturbs me, and to read the same vitriol on this site is also disturbing. I had 4 hours to reflect on the drive back home from the game last Sunday, and I too was very pissed-off. This team had a great oppurtunity to move closer for a playoff spot, but they blew it. This was a TEAM loss and every man that wears B/G knows it. But, now is not the time to throw bombs at this team and count them out. This team is in the thick of things as far as playoffs go. I am very appreciative for what coach Gibbs has done for this team, past and present and I think he will coach this team to so more great things. I never saw this man on the sidelines in his first tour with the team, but I did see Turner and the ole' ball coach try to guide this team to greatness. And we know how that went. I do feel privileged to have been in the same stadium as this man, for I know that the clock is ticking on when he will hang it up for good, and I don't know if I will be going to another game anytime soon. This man has a great legecy as the coach of this team, and I would hate to see him tarnish that with fans like us calling for his head. All I'm saying is that all is not lost, and there is still plenty of season left. This season has alot of 05' feel to it and we remeber how fun that was. I know that it is frustrating because our record could be so much better but, let's not give up hope. This game with the seemingly invensible cowboys is huge. And the other teams that are with us in the playoff hunt are in big games this Sunday also. Lets focus on the bright side of things, we are still in it. Let's support our team to beat the cowboys this Sunday.

Okay, I have waited almost one week to post of this site after the eagles debacle. My wife and I were at that game with awesome seats (15 yardline Redskins side, row 17th row). This was an expensive and time consuming investment. We were enjoying the game until the 4th quarter when the wheels seemingly came off. I could clearly see the fire and drive on the players faces during the game. But, to hear the some of the fans outwardly call-out coach Gibbs during the game greatly disturbs me, and to read the same vitriol on this site is also disturbing. I had 4 hours to reflect on the drive back home from the game last Sunday, and I too was very pissed-off. This team had a great oppurtunity to move closer for a playoff spot, but they blew it. This was a TEAM loss and every man that wears B/G knows it. But, now is not the time to throw bombs at this team and count them out. This team is in the thick of things as far as playoffs go. I am very appreciative for what coach Gibbs has done for this team, past and present and I think he will coach this team to so more great things. I never saw this man on the sidelines in his first tour with the team, but I did see Turner and the ole' ball coach try to guide this team to greatness. And we know how that went. I do feel privileged to have been in the same stadium as this man, for I know that the clock is ticking on when he will hang it up for good, and I don't know if I will be going to another game anytime soon. This man has a great legecy as the coach of this team, and I would hate to see him tarnish that with fans like us calling for his head. All I'm saying is that all is not lost, and there is still plenty of season left. This season has alot of 05' feel to it and we remeber how fun that was. I know that it is frustrating because our record could be so much better but, let's not give up hope. This game with the seemingly invensible cowboys is huge. And the other teams that are with us in the playoff hunt are in big games this Sunday also. Lets focus on the brite side of things, we are still in it. Let's support our team to beat the cowboys this Sunday.

I don't know why, but it honestly took reading the post to make me realize that we still have a winning record and that even though tomorrow doesen't look good by an stretch of the mind, we are still in the thick of the playoff hunt. As disappointing as some of this season has been I'm really looking forward to tomorrow, who knows maybe we will win but if we don't it's not the end of the world. We have Tampa Bay coming right up after Dallas and if we can beat Tampa Bay and then have an over .500 record for the rest of the season I think we have a wild card spot.

Best post on The Warpath in a long, long time.

No one can say with certainty whether we'll win or lose on any given Sunday. Yes, there is always a chance we can win. There's also always a chance we can lose.

I love arguing stats as much as the next guy, probably more, but when it comes down to it we're just arguing probability / likelihood of a future event. Anyone arguing that they know we'll win or they know we'll lose is just full of it.

You can believe something all you want and with all your heart - that doesn't make it true. I can believe with every last ounce of my being that I can fly, but when I take a leap off of a ten story building I'm going to be sorely disappointed in how much gravity doesn't care what I believe.

I say we form a group of "core guys" to bring back rational thought to the Warpath. We're not pessimists, we're not optimists, we're not drinking Kool-Aid or Hater-Aid, we're fans with realistic viewpoints, rational thought and a heart for our team.

Warpathers for Rational Thought (WRT)? The Warpath Foundation for Balanced and Rational Thought (TWBRT)? I dunno, is someone better with acronyms than I am? Warpathers Against Pessimism and Optimism (WAPO)?

I'm really not sure what was so great about the post you responded to that rendered it worthy of your "best post on the Warpath in a long, long time" designation, or what about it inspired you to suggest starting a select "rational" thread group. The bottom line is that the guy who started this thread, whose post was essentially attacked by the guy whose post you loved so much, basically suggested the same thing--that game predictions come with a wee bit of analysis. I agree witht the guy who started the thread.