Its time for joe to step down.

No, but Marcus Washington and Sean Taylor are Pro Bowlers and losing Rogers for the season certainly didn't help. Injuries are not an excuse, they are one of the reasons why slightly below average and slighty above average teams win or lose games. We are a pretty good team when healthy, and an average team when riddled with injuries. Great teams can overcome significant injuries, but (as we all probably agree) we are not a great team.

To ignore injuries to Washington, Taylor, Rogers, Moss, Jansen, Thomas (3 of whom are Pro Bowlers) is a little unreasonable IMO.

Or maybe great teams don't keep players who get hurt alot. Of those you mention two have been constantly hurt for two full years (Washington and Moss). Jansen has struggled to stay healthy the last two years. Starters who consistently get owies and disrupt the team's effectiveness are a liability.

But I'm kind of sick of the injury excuse like a lot of other folks around here. Dallas hasn't had it's secondary healthy until today and when has their defense collapsed? The bills have faced at least as bad an injury situation, and they have less talent, but we're basically on the same level. I'd say they overachieved, Gibbs' Skins have badly underachieved.

Yeah and next year you'll be whining about who our coach will be in 2009. They should start a new web site for fans like you and others that want Gibbs gone. WHINERSPATH.com

Maybe we should separate this website for real fans, not fair weather fans. Either you support the Redskins thru thick or thin or quit being a Redskins fan.

What the fuck? are you kidding me. You support them thru think or thin or quit being a redskins fan, get outta here. I have been a die hard Skins fan my entire life, I cant even remember the last time I missed a game and My whole week is ruined when they lose, but what your saying is taking it to far. I in no way support the awful redzone calls nor do I support coach Gibbs holding Jason Campbell back week after week. This is the same shit we went through with Spurrier and Turner. Marty Schottenheimer should still be this teams coach and everyone knows it, what he did with the little level of talent was pretty amazing. I am absolutely ready for a change. Try this shit in the business world, you either get the job done or they will get someone else who will. Your completely out of your mind with your rediculous rant that you must support the teams decisions or your a fair weather fan bullshit.

Oh yeah. One thing I am totally sick of is hearing people say there are no good coaching options out there. I've been much more cautious about sacking Gibbs because he may be working that out himself as others have said he will choose to retire.
But for fuck sakes, other teams find coaches out of the woodwork who make it happen. A year ago everybody questioned the Tomlin situation. Guess what? He makes Gibbs look like the rookie coach (if you're being honest with yourself). So what our we saying? Our owner and staff aren't smart enough to find a Tomlin?

Oh yeah, that kind of is what we're saying. Shit!

There are people who recognize the good and bad aspects of this team. There are people who know we are not horrible or great, but somewhere in between. But when you make statements like the above one, you are opening yourself up to harsh attacks.

I find it interesting that the anti-Kool Aid crowd thinks that they are somehow more perceptive than the Kool-Aid drinkers. Wrong. They are just as delusional as some of the Kool-Aid drinkers, they just happen to go to the other extreme. It's kind of sad and funny at the same time.

By the way, if you like the forum good. If you don't like the forum, do something different. Why bitch about the site but continue to post here? That's about as dumb as whining about a team constantly, talking about how painful it is to watch the team, cursing every coach and player on the team, but continuing to watch them. I swear that many members of the anti-Kool aid crowd are closet S&M, leather-wearing slaves who just want another self-inflicted beating.

Amazing, I disagree with the Kool-aid drinkers and all of a sudden im not a true fan. We beat the Cardinals by 3 feet, if Rackers field goal by some sort of a miracle doesnt go 3 feet wide, we lose. The Jets hit a huge play in overtime and Jerrico Cotchery drops a wideopen pass to put them in field goal range to win the game. And we had to go to overtime to beat a team that is widely considered to be the worst in the league in the Miami Dolphins, what did I say in my last post that was wrong. I swear that many members of the Kool-aid crowd are middle aged men wearing there redskins pajamas, holding on so tight to there 1992 superbowl wheaties box that they cant see whats going on right in front of there eyes.

There are people who recognize the good and bad aspects of this team. There are people who know we are not horrible or great, but somewhere in between. But when you make statements like the above one, you are opening yourself up to harsh attacks.

I find it interesting that the anti-Kool Aid crowd thinks that they are somehow more perceptive than the Kool-Aid drinkers. Wrong. They are just as delusional as some of the Kool-Aid drinkers, they just happen to go to the other extreme. The Kool-Aid crowd supposedly thinks we are a great team and the anti-Kool Aid crowd acts like we are 0-9. It's kind of sad and funny at the same time.

By the way, if you like the forum good. If you don't like the forum, do something different. Why bitch about the site but continue to post here? That's about as dumb as whining about a team constantly, talking about how painful it is to watch the team, cursing every coach and player on the team, but continuing to watch them. I swear that many members of the anti-Kool aid crowd are closet S&M, leather-wearing slaves who just want another self-inflicted beating.

I'm VERY anti-Kool Aid, but I'm not a moron. I know I'm a devoted fan, but I don't have blind "in Joe we trust" faith either. It's not working, it's obvious, and I'm tired of excuses. Sure we've been dinged up, but we've also blown a few games we had locked up. Injuries are not the reason we're where we are now. We have above average talent, and below average performances, and a coaching staff that's not getting it done. We're 26-31 in the last 3+ seasons. If they're getting it done, the record sure doesn't show it.

Since Gibbs is not going to be fired, one has to assume that threads like these are started largely for the purpose of generating a defensive response. Then the perpetrators throw up their hands and exclaim, "How dare you question my loyalty". It's eerily familiar somehow.

Gibbs is to blame for part of it, though. He has allowed the perception to flourish that anytime we run it's because he's interfering with Saunders playcalling. If he is, he's being pretty subtle about it, because I don't ever see him saying "Boo" to either Saunders through the headset or to Bill Lazor on the sideline who talks to Campbell. The only person he seems to speak with is Gregg Williams. And, Saunders doesn't really seem like the type that would shoot down such a misperception by the press if he thought it would allow him to escape the blame for any mistakes the team makes. He'll probably collect his doe and shuffle off to the next gig with his genius tag only slightly tarnished.

Defense gave up TWENTY 4th quarter points. Twenty. That's the killer to me. Yes, the failure to get in from inside the ten was horrible. But today we managed to put up 25. We gave up 33.

The timeouts weren't the issue--yes, you want to have them, but one was called by JC, the other was a reasonable challenge. The FG one hurt, but that wasn't the thing that killed us. Now, penalties, on the other hand...

The offseason, we upgraded our secondary and moved ST to center field. And that helped. But without Rogers and ST back there, it looked a lot like last year, I'm afraid.

Joe will play out the season, and we'll see. Depends on what happens the rest of the way, IMO.

On the bright side,nice game by JC. Missed Lloyd on a long one, but some sweet sideline routes, and some great throws to WRs in the red zone.

Insult to injury: Thrash is having a career day, and blows out his knee. Man.

Thats the best thing about this forum, your absolutely in no way allowed to question anything that has to do with the Redskins. If you dont drink the Kool-aid your an idiot who has no idea what your talking about, your not allowed to speak out at all against the coaching staff. There will be no "extend Joe Gibbs contract" threads next week because we are going to get absolutely demolished by Dallas. If Sean Taylor cant go and Gregg Williams decides to play the same dumb ass zone defense that has allowed teams to take advantage of the underneath plays were going to be embarrassed. We needed to win this game badly, if you cant see that than your Burgundy and gold glasses are on a little to tight. Joe Gibbs not only cost us this game but he cost us the Giants game as well. We won the Cardinals,Jets and Dolphins game by pure luck. Conservative play gets you nowhere in the NFL and if you think were just one or two plays away from being a great team in the NFC you are sadly mistaken.

No, it's more like those "fans" who only come out and post just to bash the team when they lose, but are miles away from the warpath when the Redskins win. This has been evidenced time and time again, season after season. Then they wonder why the rest of us who are here through thick and thin question their support for this team.

Amazing, I disagree with the Kool-aid drinkers and all of a sudden im not a true fan. We beat the Cardinals by 3 feet, if Rackers field goal by some sort of a miracle doesnt go 3 feet wide, we lose. The Jets hit a huge play in overtime and Jerrico Cotchery drops a wideopen pass to put them in field goal range to win the game. And we had to go to overtime to beat a team that is widely considered to be the worst in the league in the Miami Dolphins, what did I say in my last post that was wrong. I swear that many members of the Kool-aid crowd are middle aged men wearing there redskins pajamas, holding on so tight to there 1992 superbowl wheaties box that they cant see whats going on right in front of there eyes.

I didn't say you weren't a fan. I said that I don't understand why someone who does nothing but complain about a team, hates watching the games, bashes a team's win, and hates just about everything that is related to the team would actually continue to watch the team.

Second, "woulda coulda shoulda" goes both ways. The anti-Kool Aid crowd uses that expression when members of the Kool Aid crowd talks about how we would have beaten the Packers if..... Yet those same people manage to say that we would have lost the game to X team IF. Those sort of mental gymnastics make my head hurt.

But, whatever, if it makes you feel good to bitch about this site and this team, have at it.

Since Gibbs is not going to be fired, one has to assume that threads like these are started largely for the purpose of generating a defensive response. Then the perpetrators throw up their hands and exclaim, "How dare you question my loyalty". It's eerily familiar somehow.

Gibbs is to blame for part of it, though. He has allowed the perception to flourish that anytime we run it's because he's interfering with Saunders playcalling. If he is, he's being pretty subtle about it, because I don't ever see him saying "Boo" to either Saunders through the headset or to Bill Lazor on the sideline who talks to Campbell. The only person he seems to speak with is Gregg Williams. And, Saunders doesn't really seem like the type that would shoot down such a misperception by the press if he thought it would allow him to escape the blame for any mistakes the team makes. He'll probably collect his doe and shuffle off to the next gig with his genius tag only slightly tarnished.

Exactly! You're obviously looking at all of this through logical reasoning.