Portis v. Betts: The Grass is Always Greener

Skins need to do more zone blocking, something Portis enjoyed in Denver while averaging 5.5 yards over 2 seasons . . . Gibbs has him running inside like he's Larry Brown. Unfortunately, Portis is taking Brown-like punishment.

i was going to comment on the backs, but i think that it's an o-line issue. we went from having one of the top o-lines to one of the worst in 2 games. thomas and jansen aren't just bodies in there, they're all-pro linemen.

i think we forget too fast the game is won in the trenches. part of reason our D has been playing so well, yesterday aside, is that we've been getting pressure from our front four. heck we even sacked brady yesterday.

while unforunate, i wouldn't expect either betts or portis to do significantly better than the other. remember this was supposed to be the year of the two back league; we've just been fucked royally with injuries.

One of the biggest myths in Redskins history is that Betts is a power back.

And Portis is a franchise back as well.

To repeat what has been repeated many times before, Champ Bailey was not going to stay in D.C. He told the coaches that they HAD to leave D.C. So, we can complain about losing Bailey all we want, but it was going to happen anyways. And, I distinctly remember everyone being estatic when Portis came to town. Finally, the guy totalled more than 3,000 yards in his first two seasons in D.C. and broke the franchise rushing record. So, I have no reason why people still insist on complaining about the trade.

Everyone?????:eek:

The fact is and I am going to sum this whole debate up here and now, Portis is nothing more than a third down change of pace type back, or a big time back in Denver take your pick, I believe Portis's problem now is the fact that he starting to realize he wasnt as good as he, or a lot of others thought he was coming out of Denver, now he has his tail between his legs because he knows he can not take the pounding of tough running. He needs to be with Denver where he can run in space for big gains, like when he amassed almost 500 yds and 7-8 TD's against none existent defenses like he did against KC twice a year when he was in Denver. We were had by Shanahan, he saw Gibbs coming a mile away, just like the Jags and Brunell.

As for Bailey, yes he wanted out but we were under no obligation to give him away as we did, we could have franchised him, received 2 #1 picks, and kept our 2nd rd pick we threw in with the Portis deal, that would have brought back a whole lot of talent if utilized properly, lets start with a RB in that draft by the name of Stephen Jackson, I think he would have fit in with Gibbs type of pound the ball running game, we could have drafted some O-linemen to help him out as well with all those picks, maybe we wouldn't be in such a mess right now with our o-line if we properly addressed it and built real quality depth. What am I thinking Portis is worth all that and more, now I am making myself laugh!

3 words for Portis, DENVER, SYSTEM, BACK!

And Portis is a franchise back as well.

You are entitled to your opinion. You are also entitled to post pretty much whatever you want to post on this site. You also might be one fine human being. So, I hope you don't take this post as me getting all bent out of shape, but I cannot understand why exactly you post here.

All of your posts are the same (i.e., bitch about our players, make jokes about Gibbs' senility, etc.). Your take on the state of the team is almost always the same. I personally don't understand how people can never change their opinions about issues that are constantly changing (like the state of the team).

I have personally called out the coaches and various players. I have also given the coaches and the players. I call it like I see it. I think you, on the other hand, call things before you even see them. Ever since Ramsey was benched by Gibbs, you haven't been quite the same.

Again, I don't mean to personally attack you. I just can't get over how your posts are like a broken record.

Everyone?????:eek:

The fact is and I am going to sum this whole debate up here and now, Portis is nothing more than a third down change of pace type back, or a big time back in Denver take your pick, I believe Portis's problem now is the fact that he starting to realize he wasnt as good as he, or a lot of others thought he was coming out of Denver, now he has his tail between his legs because he knows he can not take the pounding of tough running. He needs to be with Denver where he can run in space for big gains, like when he amassed almost 500 yds and 7-8 TD's against none existent defenses like he did against KC twice a year when he was in Denver. We were had by Shanahan, he saw Gibbs coming a mile away, just like the Jags and Brunell.

As for Bailey, yes he wanted out but we were under no obligation to give him away as we did, we could have franchised him, received 2 #1 picks, and kept our 2nd rd pick we threw in with the Portis deal, that would have brought back a whole lot of talent if utilized properly, lets start with a RB in that draft by the name of Stephen Jackson, I think he would have fit in with Gibbs type of pound the ball running game, we could have drafted some O-linemen to help him out as well with all those picks, maybe we wouldn't be in such a mess right now with our o-line if we properly addressed it and built real quality depth. What am I thinking Portis is worth all that and more, now I am making myself laugh!

3 words for Portis, DENVER, SYSTEM, BACK!

First, I don't know of many 3rd down backs who have racked up 3,000+ yards in Denver in 2 years and 2,800+ yards in Washington in 2 years.

Second, I stand corrected. You were among the minority who opposed the Portis trade. But you were also the same guy who cited Tatum Bell as evidence that we got hosed in the Portis trade and for the proposition that Portis is a system back. http://http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/8457-whos-better-clinton-portis-tatum.html?highlight=Portis#post113951How is Tatum Bell doing these days? Didn't the Broncos have to sign some big-name back even though they can just plug guys like Quentin Griffin into the lineup? How is Quentin Griffin doing these days?

Third, who offered us 2 1st rounders for Bailey? Or are you making that up?

i prefer betts but im content with portis starting as well. id atleast like to see betts get more carries, around 10 a game would be fine rather than 2 or 3 a game

You are entitled to your opinion. You are also entitled to post pretty much whatever you want to post on this site. You also might be one fine human being. So, I hope you don't take this post as me getting all bent out of shape, but I cannot understand why exactly you post here.

All of your posts are the same (i.e., bitch about our players, make jokes about Gibbs' senility, etc.). Your take on the state of the team is almost always the same. I personally don't understand how people can never change their opinions about issues that are constantly changing (like the state of the team).

I have personally called out the coaches and various players. I have also given the coaches and the players. I call it like I see it. I think you, on the other hand, call things before you even see them. Ever since Ramsey was benched by Gibbs, you haven't been quite the same.

Again, I don't mean to personally attack you. I just can't get over how your posts are like a broken record.

I can appreciate difference in opinion and not making debate personnel, well said.

You are correct that I repeat myself, I do say the same things over and over, I am tired of listening to me say the same things after almost 4 years, but there is a reason, we continue to do the same things over and over as a team, nothing changes, the same problems that were there 4 seasons ago are still there, and Gibbs ain't changing, his first season we were all wondering what he was doing in the second half of games with the constant conservative 3 and outs putting the burden of winning in the defenses hands, we all chalked it up to him getting re acclimated back into the NFL after 10 years off, well he hasn't, and he isn't going to, so if I sound like a broken record it's because I have been watching one in Gibbs for the last 4 seasons.

If I rip our team it is because I want to see it fixed, I enjoy winning probably more than most, that is why I am so hard on Gibbs, I hate knowing we are spinning our wheels as an organization, I want us to right the ship and get back to our winning tradition, but patting people on the back, and sugar coating reality only prolongs the inevitable, I don't feel sorry for these guys they make way to much money for me to shed a tear. It's tough love, just because you discipline your child doesn't mean you don't love he, or she, it means you want the very best for them and if they have to be punished to get the point across then so be it, they will thank you later in life. Same here until they realize Gibbs is just flat out lost as a coach this problem is not getting fixed so long as he is in charge, I don't care how many assistant head coaches and head coaches and so on he hires and gives an important title to them, it's over as far as he is concerned, hire a real coach and a real GM and let Gibbs walk around in the stands and shake hands with everyone on game day because that is about his value to this franchise at this point and time, he can be the face of the Skins just not a decision maker. It's over Joe, thank you very much for the 80's!!

First, I don't know of many 3rd down backs who have racked up 3,000+ yards in Denver in 2 years and 2,800+ yards in Washington in 2 years.

Second, I stand corrected. You were among the minority who opposed the Portis trade. But you were also the same guy who cited Tatum Bell as evidence that we got hosed in the Portis trade and for the proposition that Portis is a system back. http://http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/8457-whos-better-clinton-portis-tatum.html?highlight=Portis#post113951How is Tatum Bell doing these days? Didn't the Broncos have to sign some big-name back even though they can just plug guys like Quentin Griffin into the lineup? How is Quentin Griffin doing these days?

Third, who offered us 2 1st rounders for Bailey? Or are you making that up?

Please, to address your first point, your right not many backs in Denver were even qualified to be third down back's in this league, but they rack up 1500 yards running there only to be never heard from again once they leave. That should tell you what that system is to an average back, Take a look at Portis's numbers against the Chiefs alone when he was in Denver he compiled astronomical numbers against them and remember they couldn't stop anyone. You may not know this but I wanted us to draft Portis ahead of Betts but Denver nailed him a few spots ahead of us, I thought he would make an excellent change of pace back who could give you big play ability but would be a 10 to 15 carry a game type back, my biggest complaint about Portis is really not his fault, I can't blame the guy for taking 52 mil to play for us I know I would have, the problem is our stupidity of not recognizing what he really is, not to mention Gibbs really needed a big back to play smash mouth football, yes gibbs in the past has had a lot of success with smaller backs but it was always as I pointed out limited situational type backs, Portis has proven he can't take the beating game to game.

As for Tatum, I was never a big fan of Tatum Bell, but I did use him as an example of what a basic nobody like Bell can do in that system, he kicked our ass when we went there and out played Portis, my point with Bell was Denver can plug in and average at best back and make him look great even Bell, heck they made Ron Dayne look like a decent back and he's horrible. Portis on the other hand had talent which was perfect for Denver, a very fast RB who could take the ball to the house, look at his yards per carry since he's arrived he's gone backwards since Denver, he's still young he just is not a smash mouth type RB, he needs to be used in space and we really don't do that.

You cited 2 X-Denver backs and asked how they are doing? Does anyone really know, or care? But you forgot one more that they got rid of, Clinton Portis, how's he doing these day's?:(

As for Bailey, my point about the draft picks was we were going to franchise him which will render 2 #1 picks to whom ever signs him which someone would have paid, Bailey as you well know is highly regarded as the top CB in the league, at least at that time he was. We never franchised him that I can remember to actually obtain offers but I don't think I am being outlandish in saying we would have received top price [2#1's] if we did franchise him, so I based those picks on the assumption that he would have brought back a nice draft, I believe I would have been right in assuming that, but you never know?

Hey, look, in my mind, it speaks volumes to look at Denver and what they are able to do with RB's because the way they focus on running the ball is precisely what we want and need to be doing. They may seem bad now, but they are running the kind of offense that's going to allow Cutler to be a successful QB.

So if Denver's system is what made Portis great (and I don't think that's entirely true; he's been far more successful than any other back to leave Denver, probably in history) -- I think we should be asking ourselves how we can get closer to that kind of system where a guy like Ladell Betts can look "great" and we aren't just rolling the dice on franchise RB's, because it's increasingly clear that the LT's and Larry Johnsons of the world are rarities.

Selvin Young is a nobody, and he looked pretty good tonight out there for Denver. In his first NFL start he peeled off an 18-yard rush, which is only a yard longer than CP's long on the season. That just doesn't make any sense to me. I know our line is shredded, but I'm having a hard time believing that we couldn't find a guy on this team who has a good chance of breaking one every now and then.

Maybe it isn't Ladell, maybe it's Rock. I have no idea. All I know is the current run game approach (i.e., run Portis 20 times and average about 3 yards a carry) isn't really working.