Dan Snyder is going to make his move.

I am all in favor of sending a 1st round pick to Miami for Ogunleye, but sending Samuals would be a major mistake. Steve Spurrier's shotty protection scheme made all of our linemen look bad. Before Spurrier Samuals was a stud and after Spurrier he will be a stud again. If the Redskins are thinking of trading a player look for them to trade a position where they have alot of depth like WR. That also happens to be one of Miami's week spots. As far as Snyder telling Ogunleye to hang in there, That sounds a lot like tampering to me, I don't think he would be that stupid.

Well then, Joe, what would you see as a fair value for Ogunleye? Draft picks?
Value is all in the eye of the beholder-- or in this case, a team like the Redskins who may just be desperate enough for a consistent pass rush that they would be willing to part with a first-round pick, or more, to acquire a guy who led the AFC in sacks. The Skins have shown that they place a higher value on young, proven veterans than young, inexperienced rookies-- and that they favor parting with draft picks to acquire the former over the latter.

As far as what I would consider a fair value for Ogunleye, I don't think I'd give up more than a 2nd rounder for him-- and since the Skins dealt away next year's 2nd round pick in order to draft Chris Cooley in the 3rd round this year, they would have to sacrifice either a 1st or a 3rd, or both, in order to acquire Ogunleye. It might sound outrageous to some that I don't think Ogunleye is worth a first-round pick-- especially given the Skins' dire need for a pass rusher-- but I truly believe that he has benefitted enormously not only from playing in tandem with Jason Taylor, but just as importantly, from playing alongside a couple of thick-bodied tackles in 325-lb Larry Chester and 320-lb Tim Bowens-- not to mention the rest of the stellar cast in that Dolphins defense.

Take Ogunleye and put him in a lineup with any of the likes of Wynn, Daniels, Griffin, Haley, Noble and Upshaw, and he'll be lucky to be half as productive as he was in Miami. But add a big, run-stopping defensive tackle like one of the guys young 'Wale played with in Miami, and then you might be onto something. As much as the Redskins might need a pass rusher, they need a true monster in the middle even more. As it stands now, the Skins have nobody to clog up the middle, and nobody to rush the passer outside of Arrington and Washington.

Adding Ogunleye alone might gently nudge the pass rush up to the level of mediocrity, but it won't do anything for the lack of beefiness up front that is necessary to stop the run. What's the key to a championship defense? You guessed it-- stopping the run. If you can't do that, then teams won't need to pass the ball, because they'll be too busy boosting Eddie George's career yards per carry average into the realm of respectability. What's the best thing you can say about the Redskins run defense from 2003? Well, they did finish 21st in yards allowed per rushing attempt, at 4.4 yards per carry. Aside from that awe-inspiring number, they finished tied for 24th in yards per game, allowing 138.6 yards per contest, and 29th in rushing touchdowns allowed, with opposing runners spiking the ball on paydirt a mere 20 times.

Still think the pass rush is the Redskins' most glaring weakness this season? Yeah, I'd give up a second rounder for Ogunleye, but I'd sacrifice the top picks in the next two drafts for a couple of 320-pounders who can eat up blockers and stuff opposing runners as capably as they put $8 dinner buffets out of business.

Sorry if I sound a bit "Curmudgeon"-ly, but Wally Ogunleye isn't the solution to all the Redskins' defensive woes, and he damn sure isn't worth sacrificing a key member of the offensive line to get him. Nor will ridding Samuels' salary number from the books help-- not when the deal necessary to secure Ogunleye's services would likely negate most of the benefit from that maneuver, one way or another.

Argh I hate PFT, total garbage site.

As far as Snyder telling Ogunleye to hang in there, That sounds a lot like tampering to me, I don't think he would be that stupid.

thats the same thing I was thinking. I'd do the trade if its a smart trade cuz this would help provide us with another playmaker on defense and not force Williams to blitz arrington and washington as much. if we aquired Ogun. then we could dump wynn's salary and that'd be a huge upgrade in my opinion. But with next years crop of de's coming from college I'm a bit on the edge about this cuz as I've stated in other threads before, Chris Canty of UVA is gonna be a monster who might slip to our selection in the mid to early 20s in the first round. Personally I'd rather see a guy be brought into the league as a skin than having traded for a new skin, but if the talents there to fix a hole on the team then it might be worth the move to plug said hole.

If we do make a trade for Ogunlyeye, it has to be draft picks. No question about it. I mean, we would HAVE to use our first rounder next year on a Defensive Linmen. We would just have to. We have no other area of dire need.

Our dline, should be ok next year, but nothing more than ok. Even when they have a good game, they will proboly be nothing more than solid. The way I see it, a first rounder for Ogunleye would just be like making our first round draft pick a little early.

I am not so sure AO is worth a first round pick but I can imagine that is what is on offer. I can only think of one notable player we have traded in Champ and we had not much choice also if the site is right Snyder has been very close to tampering and given what happened last year with Milloy I cannot see the front office going down this road again.

Take Ogunleye and put him in a lineup with any of the likes of Wynn, Daniels, Griffin, Haley, Noble and Upshaw, and he'll be lucky to be half as productive as he was in Miami. But add a big, run-stopping defensive tackle like one of the guys young 'Wale played with in Miami, and then you might be onto something. As much as the Redskins might need a pass rusher, they need a true monster in the middle even more. As it stands now, the Skins have nobody to clog up the middle, and nobody to rush the passer outside of Arrington and Washington.

Joe, I tend to think of this one from the other angle. I think one excellent pass rusher (which he certainly is) can transform a mediocre line. And with our LB's (and Williams' plans for using them so aggressively), that is even more the case.

Now as far as Samuels, I agree with you. But I don't believe we will have to give up Samuels. This came up in a thread a few weeks back, and I suggested a certain player at our DEEPEST position, and it started a firestorm with one of the kids here who insisted Miami did not need that position - so I won't mention it again LOL. But I still think that is what will eventually happen. Of course, a top draft pick will obviously have to be part of the deal.

[QUOTE=joecrisp]
Still think the pass rush is the Redskins' most glaring weakness this season? Yeah, I'd give up a second rounder for Ogunleye, but I'd sacrifice the top picks in the next two drafts for a couple of 320-pounders who can eat up blockers and stuff opposing runners as capably as they put $8 dinner buffets out of business.
(QUOTE]

Alright, I see your point, i just think that the D-line as a whole has been week. Unless there is an available High-level DT out there, I think we'd be best served at least fixing one part of the problem, versus none at all. I do agree with you that Ogunleye's production will fall off this year if he comes to us, because he's going to see a lot of double teams. But that can benefit our marginable D-lineman and help them have some more success.

By the way, how is Ogunleye against the run?

I truly believe that he has benefitted enormously not only from playing in tandem with Jason Taylor, but just as importantly, from playing alongside a couple of thick-bodied tackles in 325-lb Larry Chester and 320-lb Tim Bowens-- not to mention the rest of the stellar cast in that Dolphins defense.

By the way, how is Ogunleye against the run?

Well, if tackles are an indication (and I think they are), he is better than decent. He had 64 tackles last year, more than almost all DE's, including Simeon Rice and Jason Taylor. Remember, those 64 tackles do not include the 16 sacks. He had more sacks, more solo tackles, and as many assists as Jason Taylor. I'm not saying he is better than Taylor, but don't discount his numbers because of Taylor. We did not discount discount Charles Mann's because of Manley and Butz...