Jesus Camp:

I feel like kicking those people's asses and saying "Okay, if you're going to heavan and I am going to hell, I'm going to kick the crap out of you so at least going to hell will have been worth it."

My general response to these types - if you're going to heaven, it's probably not a place I want to be.

And, as for my earlier exigesis on religion and the foundation of my beliefs, I was really trying to point out that it is not "religion" per se that is evil. Also, those religions claiming to have "simple" answers to ageless questions are likely to be less than they purport to be.

Um yes you can when they kill innocent people in the name of God. Crusades, jihad, whatever you wanna call it, it is bullshit.

Although I respect those who apply the morals and virtues of religion I absolutely hate those who are blinded by it, and those who would KILL in the name of God because their religious leader tells them to.

Well that was kinda Angry's point. It is the fault of individuals and groups who pervert the message of God's love into a message of hate, not the original message of love. Just because some have perverted the message or used the power of religion to justify or accomplish their own selfish ends, that does not change the underlying truth of the original message.

I have not seen the movie that started this thread. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. It is clear that it is a depiction of a group that has truly perverted Christ's message of love. That, however, is a story as old as christianity itself.

And what brush might that be? I am wasn't talking about the people who practice religion, rather the whole notion of religion. There isn't a single religion without contradictions and that something I can't get past, especially since god is suppose to be omnipotent and divine. I can't prove or disprove the existence of god, but I can say religion is manure flavored ice-cream on pretty cone. It is highly illogical, contradictory, and breads fear. It is evil as it divides.

In this case, the brush you appear to be using when you lump all religion and the practice of it together as being "evil", etc. To suggest Dr. Martin Luther King, and Jim Jones and what they believe are basically the same is quite a reach in ridicularity.
Hmmm....that would be the brush

As I said, I personally am not very religious, but it is kind of hard not to believe in Jesus' teachings (or Allah's, Buddha's, etc.). Basically, treat others as you would want others to treat you, do not judge others because it is not your place (i.e., "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"), and know that living such a life will reap rewards.

Even if there is no such thing as heaven, good people generally lead FAR happier lives than bad ones. There are a lot of "bad" people with money and power, but if you are such an ass, how many people are you going to have in your life who love you (as opposed to try to suck your blood)? I find that many a-holes lead very unhappy lives because they know what a-holes they are and so do others.

As I said, I personally am not very religious, but it is kind of hard not to believe in Jesus' teachings (or Allah's, Buddha's, etc.). Basically, treat others as you would want others to treat you, do not judge others because it is not your place (i.e., "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"), and know that living such a life will reap rewards.

Even if there is no such thing as heaven, good people generally lead FAR happier lives than bad ones. There are a lot of "bad" people with money and power, but if you are such an ass, how many people are you going to have in your life who love you (as opposed to try to suck your blood)? I find that many a-holes lead very unhappy lives because they know what a-holes they are and so do others.

Nicely done SGG.

In this case, the brush you appear to be using when you lump all religion and the practice of it together as being "evil", etc. To suggest Dr. Martin Luther King, and Jim Jones and what they believe are basically the same is quite a reach in ridicularity.
Hmmm....that would be the brush

What makes you think Christianity is less bizarre (http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/exodus/exodus21.htm) than Jim's cult? I particularly find passages concerning salves ironic seeing has how MLK's ancestors were enslaved.

What makes you think Christianity is less bizarre (http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/exodus/exodus21.htm) than Jim's cult? I particularly find passages concerning salves ironic seeing has how MLK's ancestors were enslaved.

C'mon Saden - you're smarter than that. One chapter of a 1000 plus page book written (at least) over 2000 years ago as an example of the underlying religion's "bizarreness"? And then to equate this same passage as being an equivalent basis as a suicide cult? Are you just being purposely obtuse? or do you really believe this is a legitimate comparison of the two religions?

C'mon Saden - you're smarter than that. One chapter of a 1000 plus page book written (at least) over 2000 years ago as an example of the underlying religion's "bizarreness"? And then to equate this same passage as being an equivalent basis as a suicide cult? Are you just being purposely obtuse? or do you really believe this is a legitimate comparison of the two religions?

It should also be noted that the coming of Jesus wiped away the Old Testament way of life and expectations of us that God had/has. The Old Testament was the word of God as it pertained to Pre-Savior Jews (and also foretold of everything that occurred in the New Testament). During his life, Jesus preached love. Not only for fellow believers, but also of non-believers. Love (& grace) conquers all.

Basically, God knew that we could never live up to His expectations. Because of our failure He sent Jesus to this earth to live a perfect life and die in our place.

I should also say that in order to be a Christian, all that is required of you is to have a solid faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. You don't need to go to Jesus Camp, save 10 million lost souls, pledge $50k to a TV preacher, or live an Old Testament lifestyle. It's what is in your heart that truly determines your spiritual fate. Not me, not the Pentecostals, not any preacher, and certainly not the missionaries on the streets can determine this.

God does not command you to do anything you do not wish. We are each given our own free will here on Earth.

It should also be noted that the coming of Jesus wiped away the Old Testament way of life and expectations of us that God had/has. The Old Testament was the word of God as it pertained to Pre-Savior Jews (and also foretold of everything that occurred in the New Testament). During his life, Jesus preached love. Not only for fellow believers, but also of non-believers. Love (& grace) conquers all.

Basically, God knew that we could never live up to His expectations. Because of our failure He sent Jesus to this earth to live a perfect life and die in our place.

I should also say that in order to be a Christian, all that is required of you is to have a solid faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. You don't need to go to Jesus Camp, save 10 million lost souls, pledge $50k to a TV preacher, or live an Old Testament lifestyle. It's what is in your heart that truly determines your spiritual fate. Not me, not the Pentecostals, not any preacher, and certainly not the missionaries on the streets can determine this.

God does not command you to do anything you do not wish. We are each given our own free will here on Earth.

Good point, and welcome to the board.

Also if you havent noticed, we are a Redskins forum too, if you are into that kinda stuff lol.