Is Russell really better than Quinn?

ihow many people even knew Russell's name before they beat Notre dame? not many

Are you kidding? Maybe my grandmother didnt know his name, but my grandfather did and he doesn't even like college football particularily. You must not watch a lot of college ball, because this guy has been a stud for two years now. I think it was his comeback against ASU in 06 that really put him on the map, right after Katrina had hit.

if he was that big a stud, why no heisman invite? he made his name with the win over Notre dame, and his arm strength. to me, he is just another akili smith

More coincidence, Young/Russell are drafted above Leinart/Quinn because they have higher upside. They have more potential to be better once they learn the pro game. Young/Russell were not on National TV as much in college so they did have as much hype. They did not play in pro style offenses in college.
I think similarities are many and my analogy is pretty good.

Ok, but what is upside? Russell either will be really good, or he won't. There is no mythical concept of potential of which he will only hit under certain circumstances. Upside just simply refers to the growth that each prospect will make over the course of his NFL career. Every player grows. Is there any reason at all to expect Russell to grow at a different rate than any other QB? I don't understand why this would occur.

JaMarcus Russell will be 'X' good. This is a simplification of a simple concept. He's only going to be as good as he is. So what is Russell's "X"? Is it Ryan Leaf? Rex Grossman? Patrick Ramsey? Byron Leftwich? Carson Palmer? Daunte Culpepper? I believe he will be the next Rex Grossman. That is his ultimate potential. Until proven otherwise, its' reasonable to make a case for him being the next Donovan McNabb. That could possibly be his potnetial.

But to say he has "upside", you might as well be telling me that he's also got two arms and two legs. Tell us where you think he will be in his prime. He's either going to be better than Quinn or worse than Quinn. Saying he has upside is neither analysis nor a prediction. Maybe he will turn out to be a better QB than Quinn, but certainly that would be because he was the better prospect all along...not because of a belief that he grew differently than every other quarterback, correct?

Regarding your comment about Young coming into a decent Titan D, the Titans were reeling at 0-3 when Young stepped in for a veteran QB with super bowl experience. A rookie stepping in to a 0-3 team and he made it work. Many of the wins were directly related to Young's great play, the 50 yard run in the Texans overtime win for example. You should not take credit away form V. Young, he played well enough to win all of those games and almost get them in the playoffs after starting 0-3 is remarkable for any QB much less a rookie that was not supposed to be ready for the NFL.

Regarding who will be better in the NFL, Quinn or Russell? I hope they both succeed, the NFL has a shortage of good QB's. I am not sure why you and some others are rooting against Russell? My opinion is much more will play into what team they go to, the situation that team is in and the playing time they see, not so much their invidual talent. They are both good QB's.Don't take credit away from Vince Young's teammates. I mean Young played the game consistently composed and focused for a rookie, like the good QB prospect he was. But he wasn't a good passer, and while his running was very effective, it wasn't as effective as he was given credit for. 0-3 doesn't tell you much, it was a three game sample with an inept QB (Collins). Young played about how you would expect from a dynamic rookie, and his teammates played some great football at times and kept the score close allowing one play to make the difference in a few games, and Young did his job. But VY's passing wasn't anything you wouldn't have expected from him as a rookie. He's still got a long way to go to get his team to the next level. Leinart was better in 2006 on a worse team last year. I'd bet the Cardinals are a better team than the Titans in 2007, and Leinart might be a pro bowler.

I'm not rooting against Russell in the slightest. I am rooting for Quinn. But I can asimilate them with past QB prospects based on college stats, and it doesn't look good for Russell. This is consistant with everything about him that seems like he shouldn't be a top pick. As Hooskins pointed out, he wasn't on the NFL's radar until January. Once he got on the NFL radar, he should have taken another year to prove that he belongs there like Quinn did. If Quinn had done what Russell did and left after his Jr. season, he wouldn't have been a good prospect either.

Are you kidding? Maybe my grandmother didnt know his name, but my grandfather did and he doesn't even like college football particularily. You must not watch a lot of college ball, because this guy has been a stud for two years now. I think it was his comeback against ASU in 06 that really put him on the map, right after Katrina had hit.But even in this offseason, no one knew if Russell was even going to be LSU's starter. I mean, talk about someone who wasn't on the NFL 1st round radar, his own team was evaluating other options.

It's hard to argue with the way he responded this year. But he has huge red flags in both decision making and college experience, and yet rather than come back to get these issues ironed out, he left for a big pay day.

Would a lot of guys have done the same thing? Of course. But then again I guess that's why there are so many busts.

What Leinart did by coming back for his Sr. year could have been the difference between an average NFL career and a hall of fame career. That's how important another year of college experience is to a position as mentally reliant as NFL Quarterback is.

I think Leinart will be a better QB prospect than Quinn, for the record, but that Quinn will be a pretty good QB in his own right.

if he was that big a stud, why no heisman invite? he made his name with the win over Notre dame, and his arm strength. to me, he is just another akili smithI think you are overexaggerating a bit, but ultimately this is the right idea. He put together a dominant 2nd half of the year this year on a great football team, and all of a sudden he is the second coming. Quinn simply has been doing it longer. Quinn has absolutely proven himself a competant NFL prospect. There are just too many unanswered questions surrounding Russell.

All QB prospects can use more seasoning, but in Russell's case, it seems really obvious to me at least. Dude is not NFL ready, and thats not something that can change once you enter the league.

if he was that big a stud, why no heisman invite? he made his name with the win over Notre dame, and his arm strength. to me, he is just another akili smith

I'm not sure that's the best standard for evaluating a quarterback. Only 3 guys got invites this year. Just because a couple media guys with morning shows who know nothing about college ball waited till after that game to start talking about him doesn't mean his name hasn't been out there for over 2 years.

He had 8 fourth quarter comebacks in college playing as an underclassman. He has always showed poise and maturity. I love how people who have barely watched him play make bold proclamations about his future in the NFL.

I think if LSU had a deal with NBC this debate would be a lot more one sided.

I think if LSU had a deal with NBC this debate would be a lot more one sided.I do too.

:D

But even in this offseason, no one knew if Russell was even going to be LSU's starter. I mean, talk about someone who wasn't on the NFL 1st round radar, his own team was evaluating other options.



That wasn't an indictment of Russell, but rather a testament to the amazing depth LSU had at that position, including a guy who won mvp in the Peach Bowl the year before after Russell got hurt, and the number one player coming out of high school. The fact that Russell was still able to easily secure the position is if anything a further credit to his ability.

There's no question that Quinn is the more NFL ready of the two, but by your own argument Gtripp rookies are developmental projects who shouldn't be expected to contribute immediately.

Ok, but what is upside? Russell either will be really good, or he won't. There is no mythical concept of potential of which he will only hit under certain circumstances. Upside just simply refers to the growth that each prospect will make over the course of his NFL career. Every player grows. Is there any reason at all to expect Russell to grow at a different rate than any other QB? I don't understand why this would occur.

The reason is because Jamarcus, like Vince Young, has never played in a pro style offense. Quinn and Leinart have played in a pro style offense for years and there is plenty of tape to see them in it and they know what to expect. Jemarcus will either sink or swim with a more complicated pro system.

Interesting Note:
I just spoke to my buddy that is an LSU alum and attends multiple games a year. He bleeds LSU football. I trust his football opinion and he knows the LSU players very well.

He says safety L. Landry is a can't miss, one of a kind player. That he is special and what sets him apart is he is a smart football player. He understands his role and is rarely out of position. He has a good head on his sholuders and is very mature for his age. He is a good person.
Jamarcus on the other hand he was not sold on him making it. He says, yes he has a rocket for an arm, is a decent athlete, is big yet fairly agile ofr his size. But he questions his smarts and his football smarts.
My friend is a huge gambler, he will gamble on anything. He told he would not bet on Jemarcus making it in the NFL. That he is not a sure thing.
He will either hit it out of the park or miss completely.
I was surprised that this die-hard LSU fan would say anything remotely bad about his LSU players so this is eye opening for me.

He says safety L. Landry is a can't miss, one of a kind player. That he is special and what sets him apart is he is a smart football player. He understands his role and is rarely out of position. He has a good head on his sholuders and is very mature for his age. He is a good person.
Jamarcus on the other hand he was not sold on him making it. He says, yes he has a rocket for an arm, is a decent athlete, is big yet fairly agile ofr his size. But he questions his smarts and his football smarts.
My friend is a huge gambler, he will gamble on anything. He told he would not bet on Jemarcus making it in the NFL. That he is not a sure thing.
He will either hit it out of the park or miss completely.
I was surprised that this die-hard LSU fan would say anything remotely bad about his LSU players so this is eye opening for me.I would agree with your friend on both accounts although I carry neither the vast experience with LSU that he does nor any potential biases from such fanship.

Landry seems like a can't miss at safety...presuming you need a safety. Russell would have benefited from another year at LSU.