Have we discussed???

What I'm saying is this, Gtripp: Joe Gibbs is ultra conservative, and that doesn't fly anymore. Greg Williams has consistently proven himself as quite a great defensive coordinator. I will take his recent track record over anyone elses. I see this year as the exception, not the rule. Especially seeing as how he couldn't do what he likes to do thanks to early injuries to our secondary.

Winning games shouldn't be put squarely on our defenses shoulders every week. Sometimes we need to grow some balls, man up, and try to put more points up. Have you not seen in the 4th quarter up by a touchdown the skins touch the ball 2-3 times on offense and easily go 3 and out each time. I mark this up to overall coaching and game management. Sometimes you have to rely on your defense, but sometimes you need to put points up. In '05 I saw our defense ripped on this board for being forced, every week, to try to save the game for the Redskins.

I have always felt that one of Gibbs biggest problems on his return is being too passive when it comes down to it. He feels like two scores is enough to start running the ball three times and punting. In this league even two touchdowns in the 3rd quarter isn't near impossible to come back on. We seem to always try to make our defense hold the other team rather than scoring and making it that much more difficult.

I seem to remember this past season, Saunders got away from the run when we should have stuck with it, and it seemed as if our offense didn't establish an identity. In turn, that hurt our offense more than being "ultra conservative." When this team did start to turn to the run more, our offense started to improve. Scoring points can have as much to do with the defense not holding the other team as it can the offense scoring those points.

What I'm saying is this, Gtripp: Joe Gibbs is ultra conservative, and that doesn't fly anymore.

That logically is incorrect. Gibbs' offense was ran in his second year back (in 11 years I might add) when the Redskins went to the playoffs and advanced. Heck, the Redskins fired off 5 or 6 wins in a row because they went to the run game more. Looking back at it this year...you have Al Saunders calling his offense, and G. Williams' defense collapsing. That has nothing to do with Joe Gibbs' offensive philosophy. By looking at the facts, it isn't Joe Gibbs being ultra conservative, it is the whole picture with a new guy calling plays and the defense letting us down.



Greg Williams has consistently proven himself as quite a great defensive coordinator. I will take his recent track record over anyone elses. I see this year as the exception, not the rule. Especially seeing as how he couldn't do what he likes to do thanks to early injuries to our secondary.


The same could be said for Joe Gibbs. He has consistently proven himself as a Head Coach, something Gregg Williams has yet to do. If we use this past year as an exception, then why not apply the same for Joe Gibbs and this run? Gibbs had injuries as well on the offensive side of the ball? Heck, Joe Gibbs has already proven himself able to lead a consistently bad team to the playoffs in this day and age.

That logically is incorrect. Gibbs' offense was ran in his second year back (in 11 years I might add) when the Redskins went to the playoffs and advanced. Heck, the Redskins fired off 5 or 6 wins in a row because they went to the run game more. Looking back at it this year...you have Al Saunders calling his offense, and G. Williams' defense collapsing. That has nothing to do with Joe Gibbs' offensive philosophy. By looking at the facts, it isn't Joe Gibbs being ultra conservative, it is the whole picture with a new guy calling plays and the defense letting us down.
Where did I say don't run? I think our line and team is built to pound the rock, and I love a solid running game. I don't think running up the middle three times is a good strategy, but we need to run. And right, it has nothing to do with his offensive philosophy, notice I said game management. Gibbs is the one telling these guys roughly how he wants the game to go. If you want to look back since GIbbs has been back it's been the same thing as last year.

I'm not blaming Saunders or Gibbs for the offense last year. It takes time to get a new philosophy in and implemented, especially with the type of turn over we have over the typical year. The defense this year was subpar, but since GWilliams has been here he's done nothing but put an amazing product on the field, even before he came here his defenses have often been top 10.

The same could be said for Joe Gibbs. He has consistently proven himself as a Head Coach, something Gregg Williams has yet to do. If we use this past year as an exception, then why not apply the same for Joe Gibbs and this run? Gibbs had injuries as well on the offensive side of the ball? Heck, Joe Gibbs has already proven himself able to lead a consistently bad team to the playoffs in this day and age.
As you said yourself, Gibbs was gone for 11 years. And Joe Gibbs HAD a pass for two years before I really started being critical. Yes, we all know what he did in the 80s, that's great, you know my feeling on that. As far as consistently proven himself? I haven't seen anything of that sort in his latest stint. You're still living in the glory days, look at Gibbs 2.0 for face value, he's not in the top half of NFL coaches right now. Are you saying that the offensive injuries were even close to the defensive ones? I can't see that at all! Greg Williams has one bad year in how many years in the league? Gibbs could win in the 80's, it's still yet to be seen in the 2000's.

Last year, we lost too many games, and this is something we all know. Since I've joined this site (not that long ago) I have learned and heard just about every reason we didn't pull out more wins last year. One thing I haven't seen discussed is how we couldn't hold on to a lead in the second half, or score/hold the oppenents on key drives. Our discussions have been about free agents, trades, and the draft. I'm pretty concerned about this and I wish I had the figures to back up my thread, but I'm not any good at getting stats together.

Do you think we have addressed these problems? I don't think this is something we can fix just through the draft and free angency alone.


the real reason that we didnt win more games is because we didnt score more points than the opposition did in 11 out of 16 games

Joe Gibbs conservative? Do you not remember the Posse back in the 80's? The running game was the heart of the offense for sure, but our aerial attack was second to none when we had Monk, Clark, and Saunders. We even kicked Bronco ass with those guys and Elway and Co were supposed to be the best. Gibbs isn't conservative, just is too loyal for his own good with regards to keeping Mark as starting QB for too long last year. That is my only gripe against coach. His sticking with MB cost him 3 playoff years in a row possibly, in which his legacy would be even greater than what is was. IF he doesn't improve to at least 9-7 this season, his legacy will probably be tarnished for good. The 80's are fast becoming ancient history and you have an entire generation of younger fans that don't remember being to a Super Bowl, etc. Coach needs to get back to calling the plays and if JC sucks stick another guy in there pronto.

the real reason that we didnt win more games is because we didnt score more points than the opposition did in 11 out of 16 games

Exactly. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best answer

Joe Gibbs conservative? Do you not remember the Posse back in the 80's? The running game was the heart of the offense for sure, but our aerial attack was second to none when we had Monk, Clark, and Saunders. We even kicked Bronco ass with those guys and Elway and Co were supposed to be the best. Gibbs isn't conservative, just is too loyal for his own good with regards to keeping Mark as starting QB for too long last year. That is my only gripe against coach. His sticking with MB cost him 3 playoff years in a row possibly, in which his legacy would be even greater than what is was. IF he doesn't improve to at least 9-7 this season, his legacy will probably be tarnished for good. The 80's are fast becoming ancient history and you have an entire generation of younger fans that don't remember being to a Super Bowl, etc. Coach needs to get back to calling the plays and if JC sucks stick another guy in there pronto.
For the 90th time, this isn't the 80s. He's conservative now, maybe not then, but he is now.

Where did I say don't run? I think our line and team is built to pound the rock, and I love a solid running game. I don't think running up the middle three times is a good strategy, but we need to run. And right, it has nothing to do with his offensive philosophy, notice I said game management. Gibbs is the one telling these guys roughly how he wants the game to go. If you want to look back since GIbbs has been back it's been the same thing as last year.

Hhhhmmm. Something doesn't quite mesh. Didn't you say Joe Gibbs' problem was that he was ultra conservative and that being ultra conservative doesn't fly anymore? So, wouldn't that in fact be saying that his offensive philosophy cannot work? After all, Gibbs' philosophy is a ball controlled offense. Looking back on last year, the playcalling was all over the page. The offense didn't have an identity. Saunders couldn't decide if this offense was going to be a pass oriented offense or a run oriented. Gibbs let the reigns go last year. Anything we did wrong or right had to do with Saunders calling the plays, not Gibbs telling him which ones to call.


I'm not blaming Saunders or Gibbs for the offense last year. It takes time to get a new philosophy in and implemented, especially with the type of turn over we have over the typical year. The defense this year was subpar, but since GWilliams has been here he's done nothing but put an amazing product on the field, even before he came here his defenses have often been top 10.

I'm sorry, but exactly who are you blaming? You just said that running up the middle three times in a row isn't good strategy which I definitely agree, but then isn't that blaming the one calling the plays? So, who called the plays? Saunders.


As you said yourself, Gibbs was gone for 11 years. And Joe Gibbs HAD a pass for two years before I really started being critical. Yes, we all know what he did in the 80s, that's great, you know my feeling on that. As far as consistently proven himself? I haven't seen anything of that sort in his latest stint. You're still living in the glory days, look at Gibbs 2.0 for face value, he's not in the top half of NFL coaches right now. Are you saying that the offensive injuries were even close to the defensive ones? I can't see that at all! Greg Williams has one bad year in how many years in the league? Gibbs could win in the 80's, it's still yet to be seen in the 2000's.

Did he not in fact get the Redskins into the playoffs and advance into the playoffs in his second year back with the Redskins? How can you say he hasn't proven anything? Neither one of the last two coaches prior to Gibbs' return was able to do such. It has already been seen that Gibbs can win in this decade, because he went 10-6 in his second year. Daseal, there was way more wrong with this team than what appeared to us when we watched this team on Sundays. Even the fact that Gibbs has been able to squeeze one good season out of the three that he has been here so far shows that he still has it. I don't blame you for being critical and wanting to win now. Heck, we all want to win, but don't you want this team winning on a consistent basis? That takes time to develop.

I'm sorry, but exactly who are you blaming? You just said that running up the middle three times in a row isn't good strategy which I definitely agree, but then isn't that blaming the one calling the plays? So, who called the plays? Saunders.
Last year isn't the main gripe I have. I understand we had a new playcaller and it takes time to get that rolling. It's the other years he's been here. And while Saunders calls the plays, is not the head coach in charge of the tempo of the game he wants? Certain types of plays, etc. We did up the middle a lot less last year actually. I want to see the occasional high percentage type throws, the occassional deep pass, or in the very least throwing it to the chains on 3rd down!

I don't blame you for being critical and wanting to win now. Heck, we all want to win, but don't you want this team winning on a consistent basis? That takes time to develop.
Actually while I always want to "win" I don't want win now like Gibbs is doing. He is tossing draft picks all over and sending our cap into dire straights. Im curious how much longer we can go with this. I'm ready for a younger coach that could be here longterm, build through the draft, and build the team instead of trying to buy the championship.