Tom "Iceman" Brady

Brady has more poise than Manning. I value that more than anything else. Yes, even more than stats! :doh:How do you know he has more poise? Is your poise-o-meter flying off the charts or something? What's your reasoning?

How do you know he has more poise? Is your poise-o-meter flying off the charts or something? What's your reasoning?

Why yes, my poise-o-meter is flying off the charts.

Anyways, you said it yourself: Brady moves in the pocket better. That is just a result of not being rattled as easily as Manning. Not rattled as easily = more poise.

And, I'm sure that you'll come with some sorta stat that PROVES Manning is more poised. I just don't care for stats that much -- they're misleading (a poor way to prove an argument, IMO).

Well, well, what do you know? Manning has taken his first step toward making all those big stats actually mean something in this debate. I’ve got to give credit where credit is due- I have stated that I believe pressure adversely affects Manning. Clearly that was not the case yesterday. Even after costing his team seven points, he pulled himself together and engineered the biggest comeback in conference championship game history. He was outstanding. Hu-rah.

Now, he’s one big game, one big win, from filling in that aching hole in his heart and on his resume. The Colts are a pretty solid favorite and, given the way their defense is playing, it would appear this isn’t asking too much. We shall see.

As for Brady, he remains the league’s best big game quarterback- and thus the best quarterback, period. No, he didn’t get it done yesterday. Yes, he failed in the clutch yesterday when attempting to lead his team downfield to a touchdown in the closing seconds. However, it is a tribute to just how accomplished Brady has become in these situations that despite the odds, most folks probably half-expected him to pull another one out anyway. He’s still not yet 30. In six seasons as a starter, he's led his team to three titles and to the brink of a fourth. He’ll be back.

But back to Manning. As great as he was yesterday, he isn’t there yet. One game can’t make up for all of his past failings, or erase Brady’s success in the same situations over the past 6 years. Again, he’s taken a solid step toward proving his supporters right, toward making the case that he, not Brady, is the game’s best QB- I can't deny that and won't attempt to for ego's sake. He can take another step against the Bears, and then this debate will get a lot more interesting. I wouldn't say Brady failed yesterday, he was very efficient. No QB is going to drive 80 yards for a TD in a minute without a complete defensive breakdown (unless it's Brady Quinn vs. UCLA...but thats college), so the game was all but over when the Patriot return only reached the 20.

Brady's unit put up 27 points, which to me demonstrates a consistent effort throughout the game. He's a good quarterback.

On the same note, we knew that it was only a matter of time til the Patriots lost to the Colts in January. In the two prior playoff meetings, everything broke the Patriots way, much like it did in the first half of last night's game. You have the fumble that could have been recovered by the Colts, but by a stroke of luck the Patriots got a TD on it. You had Ellis Hobbs and Asante Samuel looking more like Deion Sanders and Darrell Green, and you had Harrison and Wayne playing like a pair of High School scrubs with Parkinsons. That is the Patriots were blitzing a bunch, the Colts were picking it up and giving Manning 1 v 1 situations on the outside, in which he'd make the throw and Harrison/Wayne would either play it poorly, drop it, or trip over their own feet.

But in the second half, something unprecidented happened. Things actually started going AGAINST the Patriots in the playoffs! The Colts recovered a fumble for a TD in the same lucky fashion that the Pats did. All of a sudden Harrison and Wayne started playing like NFL recievers. The Patriot DBs couldn't cover anyone. Belichick looked baffled on the sideline. How dare someone actually make them play a second half?! Brady even missed a wide open Caldwell which is something you never see. Of course Caldwell did drop it, but I think its safe to say he would have caught it if Brady got it to him right away.

In this bizarre game, Brady and Manning seemed like the only two constants throughout. They played up to each others level and I think this game was decided by a bunch of other factors.

Why yes, my poise-o-meter is flying off the charts.

Anyways, you said it yourself: Brady moves in the pocket better. That is just a result of not being rattled as easily as Manning. Not rattled as easily = more poise.

And, I'm sure that you'll come with some sorta stat that PROVES Manning is more poised. I just don't care for stats that much -- they're misleading (a poor way to prove an argument, IMO).Well, what the stats show is whether or not Brady is more poised, he doesn't get it done quite as well as Manning does.

Stats only mislead people who don't understand how to use them correctly.

But yeah, I think Brady has great pocket presence. He's just a tough guy to get to for the sack. Manning also has great pocket presence, but he likes to throw the ball quicker rather than move all over.

I have no idea who has more poise. It's an intangible. Either way, if Brady WAS in fact more poised, it doesn't help him complete more passes than Manning, so it's moot.

All we can see is the total package. You can't break these guys down into categories and compare one vs. the other, these skills overlap and compensate for one another. Stats can't show who has more poise or better leadership. They can only show who is giving the best results.

I think that ultimately, successful quarterbacks must be able to complete a high percentage of their passes. It's really all they can control. Brady certainly does this well, but Manning does it better.

[stats] can only show who is giving the best results.

I disagree here. Stats can't show who is giving the best results, because those stats depend on the rest of the team. For example, the receivers, the o-line, the defense, etc. We can't measure the intangibles (i.e.: leadership and poise) -- which are NOT dependent on the rest of the team -- so we're left to our own intuition. My intuition tells me that Brady has more poise. You don't have a stat for it, so you disregard it. For shame.

Great post.
thank you

This thread needs to go to bed now. It's very sleepy. Hard to argue when everyone has so much firepower one way or the other. Good luck to Manning in the Super Bowl.

This thread needs to go to bed now. It's very sleepy. Hard to argue when everyone has so much firepower one way or the other. Good luck to Manning in the Super Bowl.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've said my piece and would agree that it's at least time to put this thing into deep freeze and possibly revisit it later. Excellent points made on both sides about two great QBs. Nobody seems ready to concede anything anytime soon, but Brady's season is over and Manning has the stage to himself now.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've said my piece and would agree that it's at least time to put this thing into deep freeze and possibly revisit it later. Excellent points made on both sides about two great QBs. Nobody seems ready to concede anything anytime soon, but Brady's season is over and Manning has the stage to himself now.

I think you said it best: "this thread farts cobwebs" ... lol, great mental picture.