Tom "Iceman" Brady

Wow. Still going? This thread farts cobwebs.

there is a poll question on redskins.com that asks "if you were a GM starting a team who would be your pick at qb"

choices are brady, manning, breeze and grossman

brady is leading with 55.3 %
manning is 2nd with 29.6 %

His record is 5-6. Fact. Does this mean he will win every playoff game the rest of his career? Does this mean that he will lose every playoff game the rest of his career? Basically, just tell me why his record of 5-6 in the playoff has significance to you.

If you are comparing it to Brady's 12-1 record, again we are getting into team statistics which have very little bearing on how good an individual is.

If you are trying to prove a different point with 5-6, please explain to me one more time what that point is.

I dont get your argument, your basically saying that no matter how many clutch games Tom Brady has won that in your mind its discredited because his defense helped him win those games, although you then say that its Peyton Mannings defense, not his awful play in big games that has kept him from winning superbowls. Which to me, means your using your extremely obvious bias towards Peyton as your excuse for him being the better player. Your wrong, this isnt a matter of opinion, your just flat out wrong, Tom Brady has won the meaningless games and hes won the important games, hes a gamer and a former sixth round pick who had all the odds against him when he came into the league and basically took it over, hes not the most physically gifted QB, but hes a great leader and will carve up defenses like its nothing, i have seen nothing from Peyton Manning that makes me believe hes better than the 3-time superbowl champion Tom Brady.

Wow. Still going? This thread farts cobwebs.

:laughing2 :laughing2 :laughing2 :headbange

I dont get your argument, your basically saying that no matter how many clutch games Tom Brady has won that in your mind its discredited because his defense helped him win those games, although you then say that its Peyton Mannings defense, not his awful play in big games that has kept him from winning superbowls. Which to me, means your using your extremely obvious bias towards Peyton as your excuse for him being the better player. Your wrong, this isnt a matter of opinion, your just flat out wrong, Tom Brady has won the meaningless games and hes won the important games, hes a gamer and a former sixth round pick who had all the odds against him when he came into the league and basically took it over, hes not the most physically gifted QB, but hes a great leader and will carve up defenses like its nothing, i have seen nothing from Peyton Manning that makes me believe hes better than the 3-time superbowl champion Tom Brady.

Exactly. The tired anti-Brady arguement boils down to:

Brady is good because of his team.
Manning is good in spite of his team.

Apparently Manning's stats were achieved without the benifit of an extremely talented offense designed to maximize his signature strength (his arm strength). It's all about Manning.

Meanwhile, the fact that the Pats are 12-1 in the playoffs with Brady says nothing about Brady.

Given a choice I guarantee you 2/3rds of the GMs in the NFL would take Brady over Manning if the goal was "winning a championship" and not "putting up gaudy stats".

Can this thread be frozen after Manning and Harrison abuse them this weekend? Why in the hell has a post about some other team's QB been ongoing for so long?

Brady is our eras Montana, and Manning = Dan Marino. its all in what you like. big time stats, or big time rings. to me, the rings are the things. but saying the patriots won those super bowls because of their defense, is an idiotic statement

Exactly. The tired anti-Brady arguement boils down to:

Brady is good because of his team.
Manning is good in spite of his team.

Apparently Manning's stats were achieved without the benifit of an extremely talented offense designed to maximize his signature strength (his arm strength). It's all about Manning.

Meanwhile, the fact that the Pats are 12-1 in the playoffs with Brady says nothing about Brady.See, the arguement that Manning's offensive mates are a reason why his stats look so much better than Brady's is a completely valid argument, but no one has put foward much of an arguement along those lines for me to respond to yet. Nobody has looked at Manning's numbers vs. Brady's numbers and shown me that they are at least comprable (I believe while Brady has very solid numbers, Manning is just on a different level). If someone had done that this arguement wouldn't be so silly right now. The statement, "Manning's offense is better" is a blanket statement. That doesn't mean that Brady is automatically better. Brady has a better offense than Aaron Brooks, and surely Brooks isn't better, but by your logic he would be. Use stats, or other evidence to make a case.

"Meanwhile, the fact that the Pats are 12-1 in the playoffs with Brady says nothing about Brady." Exactly. You might be learning. It certainly doesn't hurt him, but that says nothing about Tom Brady's role in those 13 games. Actually, Brady's played pretty well in most of those games, but none of you have brought that up yet. You've just thrown the record figure out there with no subsequent arguement.

It's not really about Manning's team and Brady's team at all. You've made it that way. Here's how I would state my view.

Tom Brady is a very good NFL QB.
Manning is the best Quarterback on the planet.


Given a choice I guarantee you 2/3rds of the GMs in the NFL would take Brady over Manning if the goal was "winning a championship" and not "putting up gaudy stats".And those 2/3 are the Matt Millen's of the world who will be out of a job in 5 years. Because if they can't see something as obvious as Manning>Brady (all hard evidence points this way), how can they be expected to select the best talent at OTHER positions where the evidence is less clear?

saying the patriots won those super bowls because of their defense, is an idiotic statementIt's a simplistic statement, one that I'd never say. It would be discrediting the role of the Patriots offense in their playoff run, which I'm NOT doing.

Think about a team with all the offensive players of the Colts, and all the defensive players of the Patriots. Would that team not beat the actual Colts and the actual Patriots 9/10 times each? Of course they would.

Be careful, Dmek, to not get sucked into the rings vs. stats arguement. It's where we started. The modern day Patriots have 3 rings to the Colts 0 because Scott Pioli built a better team from the ground up than Bill Polian did. That much is obvious.

We aren't trying to decide which team is better (the Patriots), only which QB is better. Rings don't help us decide that.

Tom Brady is a very good NFL QB.
Manning is the best Quarterback on the planet.




why is manning the best ?
is it because of his stats ?