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dgack 12-25-2006, 12:35 AM No, I never argued about the greatness of Ladell Betts, so read the site and get your facts straight! No, he's fumbled 6 goddamn times this season! What are you even talking about? Why don't you look up some stats before you decide to try to attack someone. And you know what? Clinton scores a TD on that play because he has breakaway speed...
Whatever, you guys are all right! 6 fumbles in one season where you've started upwards of 6 games should be totally excusable, especially considering 2 of them cost you a chance to win a football game. And if they don't, all of a sudden, they're 7 - 8 with a shot, albeit unlikely, of sliding into the playoffs, however undeserved it may be. So don't act like it didn't mean anything.
I've been consistent with my skepticism of Betts all year. How about you look that up before you try to accuse me of changing my tune.
Betts has fumbled 5 times and lost 2, according to NFL.com.
Other RB's who have fumbled as much or more than Ladell this year: Frank Gore, Willie Parker, Shaun Alexander, Kevin Jones, Chester Taylor, Rudi Johnson.
Other RB's who have LOST as many or more fumbles than Ladell this year: Kevin Jones, Frank Gore, Willie Parker, Edgerrin James, Chester Taylor, Reuben Droughns, Carnell Williams, Tatum Bell, Zack Crockett, DeShaun Foster, Dominic Rhodes, Jamal Lewis, Brian Westbrook, Mack Strong, Shaun Alexander, Reggie Bush, Sammy Morris, Larry Johnson, Jameel Cook, Corey Dillon, Ronnie Brown, Fred Taylor, Ahman Green, Travis Henry, Rudi Johnson
Yeah, he sucks. He's a fumble machine.
Redskin 12-25-2006, 12:40 AM Betts has fumbled 5 times and lost 2, according to NFL.com.
Other RB's who have fumbled as much or more than Ladell this year: Frank Gore, Willie Parker, Shaun Alexander, Kevin Jones, Chester Taylor, Rudi Johnson.
Other RB's who have LOST as many or more fumbles than Ladell this year: Kevin Jones, Frank Gore, Willie Parker, Edgerrin James, Chester Taylor, Reuben Droughns, Carnell Williams, Tatum Bell, Zack Crockett, DeShaun Foster, Dominic Rhodes, Jamal Lewis, Brian Westbrook, Mack Strong, Shaun Alexander, Reggie Bush, Sammy Morris, Larry Johnson, Jameel Cook, Corey Dillon, Ronnie Brown, Fred Taylor, Ahman Green, Travis Henry, Rudi Johnson
Yeah, he sucks. He's a fumble machine.
He has played less games then the others listed on that list, he is a fumble machine.
dgack 12-25-2006, 12:41 AM Oh...that makes it okay? He has less chance to fumble and still becomes the second most prominent fumbler in the NFL, but who gives a shit if he fumbles all the time...
5 times he has fumbled as the primary back this season!
I don't know how you figure he's the "second most prominent fumbler in the NFL", but you're wrong.
Okay, you don't like the guy. Fine, we get it. He fumbled. Yep, it's a fact. But let's not pass off your dislike for the guy as some kind of validated proof that he sucks, because there's plenty of actual demonstrable evidence that he in fact doesn't.
It's totally fine to say you think his numbers are good because the line is good, and that he isn't anything special. But if you're going to say he sucks because of something on a stat sheet, you can't then use the defense that on the other side of the stat sheet, his yardage the past 5 games, gaudy 4.8 yards per carry, and other solid numbers are bogus.
dgack 12-25-2006, 12:41 AM He has played less games then the others listed on that list, he is a fumble machine.
He has started in less games, but he has played in every game this season. Nice try though.
Shaun Alexander only played in 9 games this season and fumbled 5 times, so you're looking in the wrong division for the fumble machine.
Redskin 12-25-2006, 12:45 AM He has started in less games, but he has played in every game this season. Nice try though.
Shaun Alexander only played in 9 games this season and fumbled 5 times, so you're looking in the wrong division for the fumble machine.
Yea but a lot of those guys get almost double the carries he gets. Give me a fumble to carry ratio and i bet hes pretty close to the top of the list.
dgack 12-25-2006, 12:55 AM Yea but a lot of those guys get almost double the carries he gets. Give me a fumble to carry ratio and i bet hes pretty close to the top of the list.
You'd be wrong, again. Ladell has 196 carries in 14 games, with another 29 today. There is only one guy in the NFL who has "almost double" the carries of Ladell, and that's Larry Johnson (at 383 in 15 games). There are about 10 backs who have 250-280 carries in 14-15 games.
I don't really have the time nor feel the need to do further number crunching to "prove" that he doesn't "totally sux0r!!1!11" but at least I backed up my points with actual stats. You're more than welcome to do the math and show me fumble per carry numbers, I'd invite you to also calculate yards per carry and give me a more useful stat of fumbles per yard gained, and let me know where Ladell shows up.
GiantsSuck703 12-25-2006, 01:00 AM That's a point I agree with 100%. However, I would assert that you know that the D is bad, so why wouldn't you play as close to perfect as possible? You know the D can't pick you up. Also, the D got you the football with a chance to win the ballgame and you proceeded to give them the ball right back. That's what gets me about this one. Everyone blames the D, it's hard to get a stop after they feel as though they've snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.
Why are you making excuse after excuse for the D, Ladell made one mistake today, but hes also a back up pressed into starting duty and hes absolutely shined. I really dont understand your argument, you say the offense should play as close to perfect as possible, do you not understand thats what they intend to do every sunday, things change those scenarios. I really cant believe that people are saying its Betts fault we lost, I honestly cant believe it, he gave us a 2 TD lead he wasnt the one who gave it back, and he damn near won the game for us, how much more do you want from a back up, how many teams do you think would line up for Betts services? Sure he fumbled, but who put him into the position he was in, to have to try and win it again?
Heres the production from our back up:
car.-225-yards-1062-TD-4-fumb.-5 fum. lost-2
Ill take that production from my back up all day, your argument has no legs to stand on, you just keep bitching about how he sucks and we should play perfect because we now the D sucks, you cant be serious
Redskin 12-25-2006, 01:02 AM You'd be wrong, again. Ladell has 196 carries in 14 games, with another 29 today. There is only one guy in the NFL who has "almost double" the carries of Ladell, and that's Larry Johnson (at 383 in 15 games). There are about 10 backs who have 250-280 carries in 14-15 games.
I don't really have the time nor feel the need to do further number crunching to "prove" that he doesn't "totally sux0r!!1!11" but at least I backed up my points with actual stats. You're more than welcome to do the math and show me fumble per carry numbers, I'd invite you to also calculate yards per carry and give me a more useful stat of fumbles per yard gained, and let me know where Ladell shows up.
Fumble per yards gained would be pointless to this talk about how much he fumbles (we are looking for how often he fumbles not apointless comparison between yards and fumbles what would that show?),and no one is saying betts suxs, he just has a fumble problem. Tiki Barber had a major fumbling problem but you would never catch me saying he sux.
GiantsSuck703 12-25-2006, 01:07 AM Fumble per yards gained would be pointless to this talk about how much he fumbles (we are looking for how often he fumbles not apointless comparison between yards and fumbles what would that show?),and no one is saying betts suxs, he just has a fumble problem. Tiki Barber had a major fumbling problem but you would never catch me saying he sux.
What more does the man have to prove to you guys, he shows stat after stat backing up his argument and you still keep it up, look the point is he fumbled, RB do that, but by no means did he lose the game like many narrow minded fans are saying, there just upset and need something to blame this loss on. The fact that that other guy can not understand that its the D fault we lost today is pretty funny, he keeps saying we should know the D sucks already and with that in mind Ladell should choose not to fumble, yep its true, hes a moron!
dgack 12-25-2006, 01:10 AM Fumble per yards gained would be pointless to this talk about how much he fumbles (we are looking for how often he fumbles not apointless comparison between yards and fumbles what would that show?),and no one is saying betts suxs, he just has a fumble problem. Tiki Barber had a major fumbling problem but you would never catch me saying he sux.
What's pointless about comparing how much yardage a guy gains versus how often he coughs it up? You're the one who wants to look at fumbles per carry, so you obviously want to find some way to show that per capita, he's an awful ball carrier.
Interestingly if you sort NFL rushers by average yards per carry, you'll see guys like Frank Gore, Tiki Barber, LT, Willie Parker, Freddy Taylor, and yes, Ladell Betts (9th in the league at 4.8). Guess what, all of those guys but LT also have 3 or more fumbles on the season. My point is, there is a positive correlation between higher yards per carry averages and higher fumble numbers.
My hypothesis: guys who run for more yard per carry have a greater chance of being "ridden" and "stripped", and those types of fumbles are often hard to prevent. I'll take that over guys who average 3 yards per carry and fumble a lot just because they suck at holding onto the ball in the backfield. *cough*ReubenDroughns*cough*
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