Fahrenheit 9/11

yeah, he goes into hard ass zealot pretty fast sometimes, just like coultier or moore, sometimes its interesting to hear, but they all tend to totally ignore any arguement against their view (sometimes they downplay it, usually they don't even bother mentioning it though). That's what I don't like, only telling one side of an arguement, and then wondering how anyone could disagree since obviously there's no down sides or other views that could possibly be right :D.

Sorry to jump into the discussion so late. Currently out in Puerto Rico attending the First Annual Warpath Moderators Caribbean Convention. Wouldn't you know it I'm the only moderator out here. Thought I'd take a break from the beach to see what topics are being intelligently debated here.

This is a good one. Most of what I think has already been said by That Guy. Don't know who That Guy is but he's fast becoming one of my favorites. I don't care much for the way that Moore puts facts out there. The Redskins lost Champ Bailey,that's a fact. But if all you say is that and don't say they gained Clinton Portis then you're not really telling the whole story. That's how Moore operates. And then he tries to shock you with things that really are pretty common knowledge. We all know that while trying to prevent the spread of communism the United States helped certain Afghan guerrillas, one of whom it turned out was the Bin Laden we know today. And yes, we all know the Carlyle Group has ties to the Bush family and to the Bin Laden family. I have season tickets to the Wizards, the money I spend on the team helps pay Juan Dixon's salary. If Dixon goes out and runs over someone with his new Benz am I somehow responsible? It's a bit of a stretch with my analogy but I think you get my drift.

Anyway, if I were to make some suggestions here it would be to read "Disarming Iraq" by Hans Blix or "Plan of Attack" by Bob Woodward. And if you don't like to read go see the movie "Control Room" As for the news, listen to NPR. Fox News may be considered "centrist" by some, but I think it's totally classless how they took daily bombings in Iraq and turned them into musical montages.

One thing Moore does do that can't be debated are the interviews. The mother from Flint and the men picking up the dead after Afghan bombings really struck me. Some parts of it I laughed, other parts really made you take a step back, most people are scared to show the type of death and destruction that a war can cause.

I also loved when Moore went around asking Congressmen to sign their children up for the armed forces. That was absolutely hilarious.

I actually was suprised. I didn't see near the amount of personal attacks on Bush as I expected, and he ripped on the Democrats some, as usual. I thought the movie was excellent, and definitely worth a look no matter your political alignment. We took a republican with us and he didn't think it was too bad.

Huge fan of NPR here

SS, I guess you're the only mod at the Caribbean Convention because you didn't tell the rest of us! Maybe next time ;)

I also loved when Moore went around asking Congressmen to sign their children up for the armed forces. That was absolutely hilarious.

thats a load of bs though. what type of parent from any part of the wealth spectrum would actually ask or tell their child to join the military? Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought we got a choice of what we wish to do with our lives in this country. Those serving in the military of our country are there of their own free will with the knowledge that they may one day be in a position when their life is in danger. I don't understand how some join the military, but when it comes to actually serving their country in a situation they think puts them in a precarious position, they take up the call that they wish to be non-combatants or that their religious beliefs forbid them from doing their job. maybe I'm the only one who see's it this way.

The problem is and the point Moore was trying to make was that many people who enlist are from lower income families from rundown cities where the military is the only way out. We're sending our poor to fight our wars while the wealthy fatcats (and their children) sit home and give the orders.

maybe I've lived in different military areas where there aren't all of these members of the military coming from poor families cuz in each place I've lived, va beach/norfolk, san diego, iceland, and va beach again, there's a wide variety of economic backgrounds with most of the ones I've gotten to know coming from the middle class. and usually the military is the only way out for some people because they don't finish high school and limit themselves on career options.

plus how is it the politicians fault who joins the military?

maybe I've lived in different military areas where there aren't all of these members of the military coming from poor families cuz in each place I've lived, va beach/norfolk, san diego, iceland, and va beach again, there's a wide variety of economic backgrounds with most of the ones I've gotten to know coming from the middle class. and usually the military is the only way out for some people because they don't finish high school and limit themselves on career options.

plus how is it the politicians fault who joins the military?
Exactly! I work on a Marine Corps base and come into contact with soldiers every day. These guys absolutely love what they do. I don't see many of these 'poor' people in the military. Most of these poor people are sitting at home, watching TV collecting welfare. They don't have the drive to make a better life for themselves like the guys and gals in the military do.

http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/index.html

A new documentry coming out, which I also plan on seeing. Could be interesting.

Exactly! I work on a Marine Corps base and come into contact with soldiers every day. These guys absolutely love what they do. I don't see many of these 'poor' people in the military. Most of these poor people are sitting at home, watching TV collecting welfare. They don't have the drive to make a better life for themselves like the guys and gals in the military do.Most of these poor people are sitting at home, watching TV collecting welfare?

There's an ignorant generalization if I ever saw one. I guess I'll just leave it at that.

Anyway, here's an interesting article I found on the subject

http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-2/459/459_05_PoorToWar.shtml