Fahrenheit 9/11

Did anyone catch it when Bush totally butchered trying to pronounce 'Abu Ghraib'??

Just embarrassing, man. Totally embarrassing that this is the leader of the free world. he should be voted out cause he stumbled on a couple words?

and war profiteering is bad no matter who does it. the corps however are doing a job that they were asked to do and needs to be done, not shoving divisive tragedy in our face at 10$ a pop. I really don't see how moore is trying to be part of the solution though... is he giving money to charity? again, did he offer any solutions at all? or just a lot of complaining that bush sucks and everything he does is wrong?

if you think corporations don't pay taxes, uhh... you're a bit wrong ;) and if you don't like outsourcing, then don't buy from walmart... the reason the jobs move overseas is cause the american public wants things cheap, and the price pressure to remain competitive is pretty high. It's cause we're victims of our own high cost of living.

and you mention how much the contractors are making... its because a few years ago people thought downsizing the military would be a good thing... so now it costs up to 10x as much to get private contractors to do the same work that the military would normally be doing. If we hadn't downsized the military, we could stay deployed for 30 more years and still be ahead at this point. At the time congress and others felt it'd be a good idea, in hindsight, its wasting a lot of money.

as far as WMD, they've found some chemical crap buried under sand, and they may have been TRYING to make nukes, but they didn't have any that i'm aware of, and i do think bush did probably have a little bit of a revenge/crusade idea going, but i doubt that was the main reason.

the bin laden family is NOT = to osama bin laden btw, that's like saying you're going to shoot up a school cause some other american did.

I'd also like to say the our first amendment and the sensationalist news America broadcasts is one of the main feeders of anti-american sentiment. I know people in germany during the whole east coast-west coast rap deal that thought it was a bloody civil war. Some others i've talked to in sweden thought that all americans were like the (scripted) ones they saw on jerry springer.

and again, having an open mind is hard, because it means that you can be wrong... that doesn't sit well with most. matty, you seem to be a bit on the defensive, just know that i'm not aiming anything at you, just airing my thoughts and seeing where they go ;)

Of course I'm on the defensive, I'm defending my views just like everyone else is doing.

I'm always open to other's opinions, as wrong as they may be. LOL

This is why I usually shy away from political discussions. It's best to just agree to disagree and leave it at that. My views aren't going to convince anyone else and vice versa.

I'd much rather discuss football anyway. Discussing politics only brings my blood to a boil.

Well, Matty, it's good that we're holding this discussion out in the "parking lot"!

I actually think this is one of the more civil discussions of F-911 I've seen. Try watching FOX! LOL

Keep it up Matty. Defense wins championships, so how bad can being on the defensive be? ;)

It seems to be conservatives get super defensive when Moore's name pops up. Maybe because he shows everything they don't want to see, and the conservatives don't have anyone on their side willing to be a propaganda machine.

I also noticed someone said earlier if we want a new President than we should vote the current one out. Problem is, a majority of Americans didn't feel he was fit for the job, but he got it anyways. Thank you Supreme Court.

The supreme court didn't have the power to decide the outcome, only oversee how the voting was carried out, by that time, there wasn't much to do. The electoral system isn't set up for a true popular vote, and you can write in to try and change that, but its not really broken (at least not enough) that anyone is going to care to fix it.

and believe it or not, moore's shown me absolutely nothing i haven't already seen (damn intarweb), sorry to disappoint ;)

I'm always open to other's opinions, as wrong as they may be. LOL
and even though that may be in jest, i figure its actually pretty true of most people, cause meanful discussion take a very long time, and its just too much of a hassle for most, so everyone's content to shake fists and go their own ways ;)

I really haven't been on the defensive either, i've just been asking, how would moore FIX the problem besides bitching about them? What kind of specific solutions did F911 offer besides a generic ditch bush?
No ones bothered to respond to either of those yet though...

I think the big problem is that he completely ignores any side to the arguement except his own, and that's why he gets so much ire. He went around asking congressmen to sign their kids up for war, and besides the fact THAT YOU CANT SIGN OTHER PEOPLE UP FOR SERVICE, a few said they did have kids over in iraq (and they conviently got edited out of the movie) among other gimmicks. He doesn't actually say anything untruthful, but his selection of facts is very one sided and misleading, trying to play on people's ignorance.

If I were to quote ann coultier or rush limbaugh/O'reilly, i'm sure you'd shoot it down for the same reason, its one sided biased crap that doesn't really have anything new to say. There's also http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/ which is actually a look at moore's claims and responses to them.

btw, i'm not voting for kerry or bush, i don't like either one... they both kinda suck in their own way ;) so i'll probably throw it away on mccain(R) - sen. arizona or eliot spitzer(D) AG - NY (because i believe they both care more about issues than platforms).

The solution Moore is trying to put on the table is a new President. He, and many other Americans feel that this is the best way to help ourselves, especially in the foreign policy field. Something which Bush sorely lacks.

So the movie is a political paid advertisment by the democrats.

zzz

how is kerry going to help though? his big complaint is the war is a mess, but kerry hasn't offered any answers on how to fix that (kerry was all for the war too)... and i doubt moore is asking you to vote for anyone but kerry, since he's one of only two people capable of winning. Seems odd, but i'll leave it alone ;)